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Welcome to the Tournament forum. This forum is for the discussion of poker tournaments.
Really like the new format. Thanks for the hard work.
X
First of all let me say that the 2+2 forum is great and breaking it into multiple formats only makes it better.
I play in Montana. Small limit with overs and no-limit occasionally. My primary source of income currently is poker. I've been playing for about 9 years and read quite a bit (I'm a law student who is taking a year off from school).
The Tournament: Every month the main place I play poker at has a tournament for the top 20 point accumulators (for some reason for the past three months I've had the point number of 666....hmmm) I've played in the tournament 4 times. I've placed 3, 4, 11, 13. Only the top 4 positions pay well, but the top 10 pay.
The set-up is as follows: Every player receives T100. Blinds start off as 1-2. Dealers choice (the games the table offers are hold 'em, 7 high, 7 low, 5 stud and 3 low) until the final table. The final table is hold 'em only.
I usually play relatively tight during the first part of the tournament...the blinds double every 15 minutes and I've found that people are loose enough that if you come in with a good hand you have a tremendous advantage.
What are people's thoughts on a 20 person freeze-out tournament (there are no re-buys, and no buy-in for that matter)? The top prize is usually around $1400.
"What are people's thoughts on a 20 person freeze-out tournament (there are no re-buys, and no buy-in for that matter)? The top prize is usually around $1400. "
Hell of an overlay! I'd play a free tournament like this every day if I could.
BTW - Is Montana still a state?
Vince
"Is Montana still a state?"
montana was a state? why?
scott
i just looked it up. not only was montana a state, but it still is. i still don't know why though.
scott
20 player free tournament with a 1400 prize - hell just chop it and take your $70 apiece and run :-}
Seriously is it free or some sort of promotional where you have to play so many hours in ring games to qualify for the tournemant?
Incredible overlay, I agree.
Of course, to play you must qualify by playing in the regular game -- but if you make money at that it is certainly worthwhile.
As for you're chop idea Rounder, the actual payout of the tourney is about 3500 total (3500/20 = $175) which is a decent chop. A chop usually happens based on stack size during the top 3 or 4. I'm pretty sure that a chop much earlier than that would result in a change in (or loss of) the tourney. Too bad.
Of course, you could always make a deal with the other 19 players to split first prize if either of you win. Hmmm...
Deleted at the demand of the poster.
The chop comment was supposed to be a joke. Guess I need a humor transplant.
Can someone expalin the tag team format to me. I see it advertized in some tournaments.
Deleted at the demand of the poster.
x
I play tournaments for the enjoyment primarily. I like the competition, especially when it gets down to the money positions. You learn a lot about people when you observe how they react to the prospect of cashing in a tournament. I find that it isn't even the amount of money that causes these personality changes, but rather the proximity. A certain percentage of people actually stop playing when they get close to the money. They seem to fear busting out more than they desire to win. They enter almost no pots and base their whole payout expectation on the attrition of others. Another group of players hunker down and play extremely tight until they are safely in the money and then explode into a maniacal frenzy, playing fast until they achieve bust out or chip leader status. The wily veterans take advantage of both extremes, punishing the fearful and challenging the reckless. I will often upset the table when I mention that I won't be making or allowing any deals during the tournament. The players who are simply waiting to move up a notch or two in the pay outs seem most disturbed by this development. By insisting that no deals be made while you are still in play, you control the tempo of the table. Often players will be concentrating not on the hand currently being played, but on the size of your stack and trying to maneuver to outlast you to be around for the deal they think will surely be made once you are eliminated. Any distraction is beneficial to your chances to win. My main tournament strategy consists of maximizing my chances at one of the top three payouts in any tourney I enter. I get to my share of final tables and do everything in my power to make each final table appearance an attempt to win. I willingly sacrifice my chances at a middle finish to position myself with a good chance to win. With the prevalence of 40%-20%-10% payouts at the top, it just doesn't make sense to shoot for anything other than a top three finish.
Lots of CrazZiEs in Atlantic City this past weekend warming up for the end of the month Tourneys. These people are nuts (you know who you are). The Presidential candidate himself will be there. Come on down; weather is great; food is teriffic; people are nuts. Transportation is cheap. You do not need even to rent a car. Easiest way is to fly is go to Phila and shuttle bus or train to AC or AC International direct then a $20 cab ride (15 minutes); NOT via New York unless you like $100 cab rides. Any questions about AC, just ask me (e-mail for personal stuff) For general stuff that might interest a wider audience, post here.
John,
I couldn't agree more. I think my biggest overlay in the tournaments I play is that I'm not interested in the token ($100 or so) payout for 5th-9th while everyone else seems to be obsessed by it. This more than makes up for my lack of experience. Now, I just need to get nasty enough to refuse those deals .... :-)
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
First of all, the new format to the Gambling forum is a great improvement!
I'm fairly new to poker and have started playing in the local weekly tournament. The books that I have read and many of the posts here don't seem to be geared for the type of tourney I play in... Here's the set up:
Hold Em, $60 buy in, no re-buys, $2,000 in chips, no limit (except for first hand), blinds start at $25/$50 and double every 15 minutes with 20-30 players, pay off is 60/30/10.
What I'm hoping to find is some solid advice on my starting strategy; begining, middle and end. Begining, do I play overly tight (only the biggest pairs and AKs etc.)It seems like when the blinds are small, people will limp in, which, it seems will allow me to limp in in late position and face a situation that I describe below. How about when it's down to 10 or so people and the blinds are getting bigger and bigger. And, when there are only 5 or so left, I don't seem to have a game plan. I either catch and win, or I don't and lose... seems like there has to be a bit more strategy involved other than luck.
Also, It seems that my mistakes usually center around getting caught in a flush/straight draw on the flop when there are enough callers pre-flop, with no raises in front and I'm on the a blind or the button. It seems that I always have to make an all in call on the flop on my draw, which I do. I'm ethier out or I'm on top... How do I handle this situation?
What I want to begin to establish is a game plan. I'm familar with many of the players and am learning there tedencies, but I need a plan on how to play the different phases of the game andhandle certain situations. Your in put is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
DAN
If you have to play drawing hands - suited lower cards 1 2 or 3 gappers - do it early in late position - med to small pairs no set no bet in other words dump them - stay out of longshot draws like gut shot and runner runner anything.
When down to the last 10 I'd survey the table to see if there are a lot of kamikazi type players ready to take each other out. Play the last table real tight until there are 4 or 5 left and then loosen up and start stealing blinds with half way decent hands and hope for a decent run of cards cuz you can't win without some decent cards but you can get to the last 10 with skillfull play.
Deleted at the demand of the poster.
I agree with Badger's comments, and would like to expand on them a bit.
What I am going to discuss is MORE true in NL, but it is true in all tournaments when you reach the later stages (when pretty much everyone is short-stacked, and an average stack can only play 1 or 2 hands to the end without going broke).
You need to be looking for situations more than looking for cards. If you're one off the button, and the tightest rock at the table is in the big blind, do you really need a big hand? If everyone else has folded to you, it may be that a raise now will steal the blinds well over half the time, just because of who is still holding cards behind you. In other cases, you may know that a player will call your raise a lot, but will almost always fold if he doesn't flop top pair or better. In other cases, there is a chip leader behind you who is fearless and aggressive, and he may reraise you with anything. In each case, the situation matters more than your cards, and you should think about what cards you need to make a play BEFORE you even look at them. This way you won't pass on the opportunity to steal just because you see that you're holding 72o. If you've decided to steal before you even look, then you are more likely to follow through without hesitation.
In the case of an aggressive chip leader behind you, decide which hands you're willing to play for all of your chips, and fold anything less (which sometimes might be some VERY good hands).
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
You missed one important opponent. The weak player behind you that will call your medium pair raise with K,9s or even K,xs. Beat you every time!
Vince.
****Caution**** The following post is long and involves tourney description without discussing a single hand played.
Tonight at Crystal Park they unveiled the new Sunday nite NL Hold-em tournament format. $50.00 buy-in, $10.00 "juice" with T800 and no rebuys or add-ons. $4,000.00 guaranteed prize pool. 47 players buy-in, so there is a shortfall of $1,650.00 which the house makes up. So far, I like it a lot. There is the usual mix of very good players (10), so-so players (10), very little hope players (10), and "no chance if they live to be 100" players (17).
Some of the very good players are Mike Chang, Anton Uelker, "Chico", Kathy Kohlberg, Craig Wong, "Harley", Bill Scott, and a couple others whose names I forget but whose games I remember vividly. The new format calls for us to start at 6:00PM instead of 5:30 as advertised. Play actually begins around 6:10 or so. Several dealers are given early outs so that they can play in the tourney. (two were last minute additions to my table)
Rusty Mandap was the tournament director tonight and he does an excellent job of running things. I saw nothing occur out of the norm that he wasn't hovering over immediately and being decisive. Anytime Rusty is in charge, it is a vast improvement over the norm.
By the time we finally got down to the final table, a lady player named Simone had personally eliminated at least fifteen players and controlled T14,000 of the T37,600 in play. As soon as the final table was formed, eight handed, since two were knocked out in the same hand for hand sequence, someone mentioned doing an eight way deal. I was about to mention that I don't make deals when another player pointed to me and said "He won't make deals." Payouts were $1,560.00, $800.00, $400.00, $320.00, $280.00, $240.00, $160.00, $120.00 and $120.00. One of the eight players brought only T150 with him to the final table, but he outlasted a player named Boris who pushed all in for about T2,000, was called and knocked out by Simone. Tony, the player with the T150, was next out. The railbirds were chanting for a deal as they always do, hoping that each remaining player would be paid enough that they might part with a "lucky" $5.00 chip when walking past them to the cashier's cage.
I finally managed to whittle away at Simone's stack and put her out in fifth position. We wound up playing four handed for about 20 minutes when "Harley", the player who told the other players that I don't make deals, suggested that since we were all in reasonably equal chip position, and seemed to know what we were doing, we should consider an even four way split. Since I had the fewest chips, T6300, was the big blind at T500-T1000 with T200 antes, and hadn't picked up much of anything for the past 15 minutes, I was ready to listen. Four way, each of us would get $770.00. After all the others assented to the deal, I decided that I was happy to go along with the chop. I really believe that you get a much better deal when you express a preference to not make any. Poker players are a perverse bunch.
I am almost never able to get out to play on a Sunday due to family obligations, but I heartily recommend this tournament to any on the forum who appreciate NL Hold-em and guaranteed prizepools.
Firstly, I'm quite pleased that the Forum has been split like this as now I don't have to wade through interminable discussions about JT being 5 cents better than KJ and so on. If you had a forum entitled "My Aces got cracked, it's not fair", that might weed a few more out (only joking).
Anyway here are two hands I was involved in yesterday which illustrate a point I'd like to make. The game is Pot-Limit 7 Card Stud (a rocking game), 31 entrants, $40 buy-in, rebuys for 75 minutes, $4000 in the pot. Prize breakdown is $1600-900-550-350-175-120-120-120-120 . This is in the UK, but all money is quoted in dollars to make it look bigger :-). As an aside, I would like to ask people to include the prize breakdown in any tournament question as it makes a big difference.
Hand 1 : Two tables, 6 players at each. I have about T7000 which is just under the average stack, antes are 400. Jack (high card) on my left brings in for 400, all fold to me with (85)8. I raise 2500. Jack (player who I haven't seen before but seems reasonably sensible) has T10000 or so, he calls. Jack catches a King, I catch a four, he checks. Now I have T4500 left and the pot is around 7000. I decide to go all-in. In the approved style I won't say what happens yet but it is given away to an extent by the very existence of ......
Hand 2 : Down to 5 players. I have T25K, two other players about T30K each, lady on my right has T10K and one other is short-stacked. Antes are 800. There's a lot of stealing going on so I decide to limp and re-raise with the next big hand I get. Straight away I pick up (JJ)A, all other upcards 10 or lower, I bring in for the minimum. Fold, Fold, Fold, lady showing a four raises 5000. I re-raise. Now she has about 4K left and there is around 18K in the pot that she can win. I've never seen her before either but she seems to know what she is doing - I put her on a pair of 4s most likely. She thinks for a while, looks hard at the short stack who has about T2K and folds. Next hand the short stack drops out, she picks up another $175 (and goes out herself almost immediately). A railbird tells her what a good pass it was in my hand. I keep the now legendary low profile, but between us, I disagree entirely.
The plays I want to focus on are my all-in bet in Hand 1 and the lady's fold in Hand 2 (although any comments on other plays are welcome). My point is simple but will I think be contested - there are times in a tournament when you have to bet (Hand 1) or call (Hand 2) even if you think you have a second best hand.
I welcome all comments and will expand my reasoning as necessary.
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
Further techie question - can anyone tell me how to make the above URL appear as a hyperlink ? Thanks.
"Hand 1 : Two tables, 6 players at each. I have about T7000 which is just under the average stack, antes are 400. Jack (high card) on my left brings in for 400, all fold to me with (85)8. I raise 2500. Jack (player who I haven't seen before but seems reasonably sensible) has T10000 or so, he calls. Jack catches a King, I catch a four, he checks. Now I have T4500 left and the pot is around 7000. I decide to go all-in. In the approved style I won't say what happens yet but it is given away to an extent by the very existence of ......"
This depends entirely on the player. If he's a good player, he sees that you're last to act and will raise with many hands at that point. So he's calling 2500 into a pot that will have 7400, and he'll have 7500 left. With these odds, and since you probably don't have more than a pair of eights (and may even have less in your position), he might make this call with a lot of hands. Certain hands should probably just reraise all in there - you have only 4500 left. If he has a 3-straight, he has three overcards to your pair, and many cards will improve his hand on fourth. He also might just call if he had a 3-flush with overcards to your pair. And you might not even have a pair. If your eights and fives are totally live, and if you have a 2-flush, you're probably only a 2-1 underdog to jacks on fourth street. It's close to even if he has something like (33)JK. If he caught an offsuit king, it improves any 3-straight. If he had a 3-flush he now has a few overcards and a small chance to make a flush. So he is unlikely to fold to your bet on fourth. You're betting 4500 into a pot that will contain 16400. With twelve players left, it is probably best to go all-in here at those odds.
"Hand 2 : Down to 5 players. I have T25K, two other players about T30K each, lady on my right has T10K and one other is short-stacked. Antes are 800. There's a lot of stealing going on so I decide to limp and re-raise with the next big hand I get. Straight away I pick up (JJ)A, all other upcards 10 or lower, I bring in for the minimum. Fold, Fold, Fold, lady showing a four raises 5000. I re-raise. Now she has about 4K left and there is around 18K in the pot that she can win. I've never seen her before either but she seems to know what she is doing - I put her on a pair of 4s most likely. She thinks for a while, looks hard at the short stack who has about T2K and folds. Next hand the short stack drops out, she picks up another $175 (and goes out herself almost immediately). A railbird tells her what a good pass it was in my hand. I keep the now legendary low profile, but between us, I disagree entirely."
In a side game, her fold would be a major error. Even with a pair of fours against certain aces, you would call all-in for 4000 into 22000. The fours don't do *that* badly when they can get the higher pair heads-up, since they can often win with two small pair when the higher pair doesn't improve. In this tournament situation, she shouldn't be focused on just advancing to fourth place. She should be looking to double-up to contend for the higher places, and should not have raised with a pair of fours to begin with. With 4K left and the ante at 800 per hand, she doesn't have a chance. So even given her earlier call, her fold is a mistake here.
"The plays I want to focus on are my all-in bet in Hand 1 and the lady's fold in Hand 2 (although any comments on other plays are welcome). My point is simple but will I think be contested - there are times in a tournament when you have to bet (Hand 1) or call (Hand 2) even if you think you have a second best hand."
When the pot is large relative to the stacks, it often becomes correct to call with a second-best hand given sufficient odds. (And that's even more true if your bet with a second-best hand might make your opponent fold, or if your opponent might not have the hand he represents.) In late tournament situations, there are times when you don't want to get involved, since the chips you risk are worth so much more than the chips you stand to gain. But that isn't the case in the examples above.
Thanks Dan,
That's pretty much how I see it. One incidental point I'm interested in, I wonder if my original post was clear, where you say "[She] should not have raised with a pair of fours to begin with".
Putting myself in the lady's shoes on Hand 2, five-handed with about 12 antes left, if an Ace brought it in for _the minimum_ and everyone folded to me with a pair of fours in last position, I would raise every time. A pair of fours against an Ace plus two random cards (essentially) is good enough for me to go for it in this spot, and if I get re-raised, shrug my shoulders and toss in the rest. There's a good chance I can win the antes without a fight as well. If there's something I'm missing here, please let me know.
Thanks,
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
If she was last to act before the high card, then it is correct to bet there. If she was in an earlier position, that bet would be a mistake with a pair of fours.
.
I am contemplating entering a 7CS super satellite for entery into a $120 Tournament. The buy-in is $10 with unlimited $10 rebuys. I have never played in this type of tournament (unlimited rebuys) and need advice on rebuy strategy. Thanks in advance.
If the rebuy gets you the same number of chips than the original buyin, then make a rebuy every time you go broke or are very short-stacked.
If the rebuy gets you more chips than the original buyin, rebuy every time you are allowed to do so.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I played in a rebuy tournament with a guy like you last month $55 for $500 in chips and unlimited rebuys for 90 min so long as your stack was under $500 and 2 rebuys on the break.
This guy rebought 10 times - thank god I got several of his illadvised all in bets. You see he went there intending to play real loose and rebuy as much as he could. After the rebuy period he was out in 2 hands.
Multi rebuys if pure folly and a sign of a really weak gambler - My advice would be to rebuy once on the break if you need to top up your chips. If you go into the tourney with the attitude I'll play this junk and rebuy if I'm not lucky - well I'll send a taxi to the airport for you.
Well now, you've read WAY TOO MUCH into my post.
I never said anything about how to play those chips. I just said when to rebuy.
As a matter of fact, I play pretty tight in most tournaments, tighter on average than in a ring game. This is primarily due to the fact that there are typically not enough people in preflop to justify playing any drawing hands in any position.
Why do you assume that because I (almost) always rebuy when qualified, that I also play super loose?
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Hey Fossilman, chill! Just cause the man said you was a Super Goose doesn't mean you should get your "Down" up. Or did he say super loose? Guess I better reread it.
Vince.
Greg, Response was not pointed at you - I was just on your reply when I answered Jakells SS question.
Guys, don't forget this is a super-satellite. You would have to be nuts to buy in 10 times when your maximum win is 12 buy-ins (doesn't mean no-one would do it, tilt happens).
I assume that when you say "unlimited" buy-ins there is a limited _period_ during which you can buy in any number of times. Anyway, the unlimited buy-in combined with it being a Super-Satellite makes this very different to a normal tournament. If people re-buy just twice each on average then (work it out) 25% of the field will win an entry. In this scenario your strategy is three-fold : survive, survive and survive. There's no prize for winning.
Just watch out for the classic Super-Satellite trap - if you have a big stack and only a few players remain to be knocked out, such that it is virtually impossible that you could be anted out before the necessary players are eliminated, throw away EVERY HAND. Experienced players have been caught with this before in WSOP Super-Satellites. Aces go in the bin in this situation.
And my last two cents' worth, if you're planning to buy in a few times in this SS, why not just cough up the $120 and enter the tournament if that's what you want to do.
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
If they are running multiple super-satellites, your best approach is to not rebuy at all. Due to the escalating limits, the most valuable stack you will own is the initial one. If you lose it, come back tomorrow (or in some cases, tonight), and play another one. If you don't have the option of playing another super, I would plan on one rebuy and cap it at no more than a rebuy plus the add-on.
There are exceptions. First, if I went broke in the first 20 minute period, I'd consider rebuying then. You are still not far behind the field even with a fresh stack. The idea is that you should rebuy as SOON as possible. Second, even if you are playing multiple supers (and thus take the approach of not rebuying), in some, you may find yourself in a precarious position at the end of the rebuy period, and at that point it may be necessary to add-on. When I say precarious, I mean a stack that just needs a little pumping up to be in the middle of the pack (i.e., you didn't lose anything that first hour, but you didn't win much either, so an add-on puts you back in contention). Even if your stack is a little weak, it only takes your next good hand after the break to put you in a strong position.
I would not add-on if I've multiplied my stack by a factor of 2 or more during the first hour, or if I were so short-stacked that an add-on would still leave me very vulnerable. Lets say you get 300 in chips for each buy-in, and at the end of the first hour, you had 800 to 1000 in chips -- I would not add-on. Also, if you had less than 200, I would not add-on, but if you were stuck in the middle, at say 500, where 300 more chips would put you in position to fight, then, yes, I would add-on.
While $10 isn't much of a buy-in, nor is $120 much to be chasing with multiple rebuys. Even for a $220 buy-in and a $10,000 tournament, multiple rebuys aren't very good business. If you are going to make multiple rebuys, and have the option, a single table satellite is a better investment.
One factor almost always overlooked by players is that rebuying has a deleterious affect on their performance. Not only do they play in a different manner that first hour ("I'll rebuy if I go broke"), but the rest of the table is gambling with them, and are in fact preparing for their inevitable tighten up after the break. I prefer to play solid the first hour, then open up when all the loose gooses from the first hour close up shop (in a 7-stud event, this is usually the entire table, unless you have marginal limit hold-em players at your table who may still be gambling). In the last five years of WSOP super-satellites, my best performances have always been when I approached the event with the idea that I would not rebuy.
It always seems like the weak loose very aggressive ones always rebuying one after another. Looking to get "lucky".
I remember some joker rebuying 8 times in the $220 WSOP - didn't matter as soon as the rebuy period was over he was all in and all out.
I just love these guys with testosterone overload.
I am relatively new to tournament play in AZ. I have noticed that there are many groups, or consortiums involved in each tournament. My question is two-fold, is this legal, and assuming it is, what is the best strategy against these groups since they have a distinct advantage in merely the number of hands seen? Thanks for the help.
Cat - I agree in Arizona specially there are guys making side bets on who lasts the longest and swapping percents of each other. I assume it is legal but I don't like it much eigther. I have had guys, good players, say anytime I want to swap 25%. I never do it. I think it affects how they play and how I might play.
Use it to your advantage if you can.
I think these guys are mostly bad players big 20-40 losers and don't mind it to much.
I play tournaments in the 4 Phoenix casinos.
I'm just fixin' to go play in the 11am Casino Arizona Limit HE tourney.
Rounder, what are the best tourneys in AZ to avoid the group situation? How do you use it to your advantage? Thanks for your help.
The only regular tourney where there is not a lot of this is the Sat morning (noon) at Harras. It is Limit HE $25 buy in and about 40 or so players - I like it cuz I think it is a soft tournament and easy to score in plus a $5 knock out prize.
Otherwise if your gonna play in Arizona get used to the buddy system - like I said most are poor players and don't much make it to the final table that is why they do the $20 side bets on who is the last one out.
Use it to your advantage by knowing the players and who plays the buddy thing. I'll have more to say here but have to go.
A word to the wise about going to this tournament at the Cosmos Casino later this month.
You must declare how much cash you are bringing into Russia at the Moscow airport customs checkpoint. You must also declare how much cash you have when leaving Moscow/Russia. If you have more money than what you came in with, you could be in for some real problems - the least of which would be confiscation of your money.
Russian authorities are very sensitive to cash leaving the country. Put that together with any language barrier you may have and you might find yourself detained, missing your flight and/or in jail.
If you don't declare your money coming in and try to leave the country without declaing any money, all of the bad things above could happen but worse.
Generally speaking, casino's in Moscow are bad news. I have walked through two out of curiosity which advertised poker. In both instances, the poker was "Oasis Poker" which is a form of "Caribbean Stud" but with an option to draw a card.
There are lots of "Mafia" types hanging around these places and I don't recommend being anywhere around these places if you have any cash on you - especially after dark.
Sorry to be so negative but I have been there.
Moron
Sounds like southern california :-)
I have had the pleasure of playing with the Russians. You can beat them playing cards, but you cannot win on their turf.
To play in Russia you have to be a moron (yuk, yuk).
seriously.....bad news unless you are a diplomat
I was hoping to get a little info. from the experts. Omaha tourneys-what are definite hands to play from any positions and what hands are good in certain position; i.e. what is your weakest starting req. on the button with 4+ callers (no raises)? I have been playing HE and am considering broadening my horizons.
Thanks for the help.
Jeremy
I will be traveling to an area that has began a higher buy-in limit HE tournament than is normally spread. Their is a $20 entry fee and a $300 buy-in for 3000 units. I understand that the blinds increase every twenty minutes (its a 6 hour cruise). One Add On of $ 200 is allowed for 5000 units. This is a new tournament limit, but about 18 people usually show up for the normal $ 100 buy-in tournaments. I have played against nine of the regulars in a normal ring game and none were particularly strong HE players. Normally, six places are in the money, but I believe 10 or so people will place in the money in this tournament? Any comments on strategy? With the Add On giving 5000 units, it appears that even a chip leader would be smart to Add On.
Yeah you have to add on at that ratio.
blinds going up every 20 min is fairly standard
ring games are different than tournaments - so you may find your regular players playing differently in a tournament I'd reserve judgement on their play until you see them in action odds are if they are weak in ring they will play the same weak game in a tournament.
6 hours is a long time for 18 people to play a 1 rebuy tournament although $3000 is a huge amount of chips for a limit tourney - I suspect your competition will see the huge amount of chips and play real loose early. I advise you not to do the same. If they are loose you play your tightest game early and as the blinds go up loosen up and adjust to the table changing - new players and being short handed.
if 18 play the $100 I doubt if they will draw more than the 18 - If they advertise it maybe they will get some high rollers in for the bigger prize you never know.
I wish you success.
I like the website's new expanded setup.
What do you think of the following deal:
7CS tourney with 15,000 in chips in play.
First Place: $1000 Second Place: $500
Its down to 4 players with antes of 50, 400/800 betting. We're half-way through the 20 minute round and antes/limits continue to double.
One guy has about 11,500 in chips and the rest are about equal at around 1200. The large stack seems to be content to let us other three take turns stealing the antes and bring-in, so we propose to him to give up $100 and let us take $200 each. He agrees without giving it much thought, but gets criticized by his buddy for being to generous.
Here were my back-of-the-envelop thoughtson this deal from his perspective:
100% probability of getting at least 2nd place money.
70% probability of getting first place money given the size of the limits and his (correctly?) letting us knock two players out and consolidating 30% of the chips.
His EV = 25% * $500 + 75% x $1000 = $875.
Seemed like a good deal for him, but I didn't want to quibble about 25 bucks split three ways.
The only reason I second-guessed myself was that the large stack was directly on my right, so it was more difficult for the others to steal my bring-in for fear he might spring to life. I might have tried taken a shot to try for the second place money yself if there wasn't a spot in the pot limit game waiting for me.
What do you think?
I agree with your calculations, except why did you use 75% and 25% when you did the math? It should still be 70% and 30%, which yields an EV for him of $850.
And when you think a bit more, even if it's not much, there must be some chance that he won't get any money at all if you play it out, which reduces his EV even more (probably to ~$845).
Since he got $900, it's a good deal for him.
I see his buddy's attitude quite a bit. You can be pretty sure that his buddy just doesn't appreciate the difference between a sure thing (100%) and a likely thing (70%), and therefore has no clue what the difference is truly worth. These are the kinds of guys who have no chance of ever beating sports betting. Of course, I have no chance either, but that's because I don't anything about ANY sport.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
The amount of chips in play was approx. 25000 the chips in this tournament are worth six cents on the dollar the chip leader had over 18000 in tournament chips and the stakes were going to be increased to 1600-3200 ,
Close enough. I was just reconstrucing the numbers so that the math made sense. I figured the guy had about 70-75% of the chips, so I guess I was close enough. Don't you have any real estate to sell?
$55 but in with unlimited rebuys until break (3 limits) 60 players and over 13,000 in pot - so winners share is about $5,000.
I'm playing bad cards as well as I know how and winning the odd pot best hand is AJ and I had to chop that one.
Biggest pot came with AT that I played like AA and won without showing.
After the break limits now $200/400 I have about $1500 and Ac5c and raise one limper to $400 blinds fold. Limper reraises me I call. Flop is 3c 4d 6c limper checks I bet - I have open ended straight 6, nut flush draw 9, and A 3 - I figure I'm a fav here - Qd on turn I bet $400 call river 5s I'm out of the tourney - playing a hand I despise in a tournament.
guess If I hit one of my 18 outs x 2 I'm in with $3300 and a better chance to win this thing.
Never mind, happens to the best of us. I'm not a limit expert (in Pot-Limit all my money would have been in on the flop), but I am curious as to why, seeing as you are almost certainly behind, you didn't take a free card on maybe the flop and definitely the turn ?
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
The guy I was playing against was a weak passive calling station sort and I wanted to get rid of him right there and I plus I'm committed to this pot and I'm walking out if I lose or I double up.
Andy guess I'm playing to much NL HE - had a testosterone attack.
Cheers
If he's a weak-passive calling station type, why did you think he would fold to that ragged board after he three-bet you on the flop? These types of players will check-call you down with an overpair all night long. I would have taken the free card on the turn and looked to show down your Ace if you missed.
At least you went down swinging. In these tournaments, you have to make moves against the players rather than wait for a big hand and get blinded out of contention. This seemed like a good shot to try to pick up some chips and it didn't work out.
In no-limit, you probably would have taken it down by moving in on the flop.
I wonder if it wasn't a reaction to being called weak/tight by someone on this forum? I say you should play the game that feels the most comfortable to you. One of the biggest advantages I have is knowing that I'm probably at a disadvantage when it comes to having the ability to outthink some of the high profile tournament players I compete against. Since I can't outthink or outplay them, I'm forced to look for situations where they are unable to use their superior skills against me. I prefer to leave them with a single decision, call or fold.
John
that comment didn't affect me. It was my chip position and button position - were the deciding factors.
I probably would not have played the hand to begin with. With a limper your quite possibly taking the worst of it plus you don't know what the blinds will do. If I was to play the hand I would just call before the flop and try to get a free card on the turn.
Bruce
What did Mr. Limper have?
KK
60 players made over 200 rebuys? This sounds more like a Southern California Limit hold-em tournament.
Axs? I'm glad to see that you are opening up and playing like the rest of us Gamb00lers!
When you bet the turn did you believe you had a decent chance to get the opponent to fold? With that 5 on the river and the scary board, I wonder if he would have called had you just checked the turn and bet the river?
Disclaimer: One of the reasons I avoid limit Hold-em tournaments is because I don't know how to play the game. This doesn't keep me from expressing my opinions on how others play it, however.
John I got this guy to fold onm the river with a TT earlier in the game I knew I was pot committed and just bet it out. That is why I prefer NL HE - limit is to much of a gamble. :-)
X
Another option would have been to dump the hand pre-flop when the limper reraises you. I would think that the "Aces or Kings" flag would come up when he reraises. If you dump, you still have 5.5 small bets which gives you a chance.
Easy to say in hind sight.
I was probably just disgusted - for 1.5 hours I had to struggle with NO cards at all - won with AT and chopped with AJ stold a few other pots cuz of my table image - the suited A with one strange player was ok to make a move with and hell I had 18 outs and would have looked like a gunius if I hit.
It is not my style but I played it anyway.
Understand.
I've seen the same movie a few times myself.
Better luck next time.
"Ac5c and raise one limper "
Rounder,
We both know that a raise in this situation was a big mistake. The results were a perfect example of why this is a terrible play. You were reraised by a limper. A very good sign of a big hand. If he has Aces you are drawing mighty slim. Kings only slightly better. Think of the worst possible flop for your hand. You got it? A big draw. You are the favorite (~3 to 2) but if you miss your dead. But wait the opponent checks the flop. You bet and are called. Mistake, maybe, maybe not but when he calls you gotta figure your beat. But wait he checks the turn (now you are a dog(~3 to 2 to a big pair). You bet! That has to be a big mistake. He checks the river. You bet and you are gone. Three+ strikes and you are out. I do not want to appear too critical but your whole post smacks of a defeatist attitude. Somewhere along the road you appear to have mentally given up. That is not meant in a derogatory way. It is just my observation.
Vince.
Vince good observation, I am in the dumps lately, the way I played tonight I should be arrested for impersonating a poker player.
I made atleast 5 major mistakes, if I wrote them all down I'd just throw up and that is not good.
I have this personal problem with one of my kids and it is eating me up - so maybe I ought to just lay off poker until my head is clear.
A very strange thing happened to me yesterday in a NL HE tournament. 60 entrants, top 4 places pay with a heavy weighting towards 1 and 2). Down to the last 6 players. Blinds are at 240 and 120. Each player started out with T50. I have about T900, another big stack has a little more and the rest of the players are very short-stacked.
I'm in the BB. UTG raises all-in (another 13 chips making it 253 to go), middle short stack calls (leaving him with about T 150 left). SB (another short stack) folds and I looking at a bet of 13 chips I call. I hold 4/2 off suit.
Now things get weird. The all-in player (UTG) turns his hand over -- it's Q/10s -- and then the middle player (who is not all-in) turns his hand over also (it is either Joker, 2 or Joker,3 -- yes I play with that damn Joker). The dealer immediately tells the two players to hide their hands. Both hands only flashed briefly so people don't know who saw what, but being attentive, I saw everything--still not sure if it was a 2 or a 3 in the other players hand.
Flop comes 2,6,7. I check, middle checks (he is looking at me like I might know his cards). Turn is a J. Checks around. River is a K. The board now reads 2,6,7, J,K no flush possible.
I pause for a moment and realize that my little 2,4 is not such a great hand right now, then I say to the middle player, "Well since I know you have Joker,2 I know I have you beat -- all-in." He looks stunned. Thinks for a moment and folds. I take down the pot with my pair of deuces (he would have had me out-kicked if he had a deuce,joker). If he had 2,Joker he folded the winner. If he had 3,Joker he folded wisely. He didn't tell me what he had and I didn't ask.
He was visibly angry by the whole deal, as was the other player who was all-in (though I had him beat).
What are people's thoughts on this sort of situation? Generally I play poker to win -- no soft-playing. The other player made a mistake by not protecting his hand -- I exploited it. The fact that I did not have the hand I thought he had beat makes my statement a pretty obvious falsehood. I know that it is permissible to lie at the table (which is why I am very careful about what people say to me at the table.)
As for the tourney -- I placed 1st, mainly because of the significant chip lead this pot gave me at that on the next pot the middle player called my all-in bet (I think he was tilting because of the previous hand) when I made a full house on the flop to his straight draw).
I think that during the play of the hand that these sorts of things are perfectly acceptable, with one major caveat.
Doing this pisses people off. That's fine, if that's all it means. However, when everyone is pissed off, the game usually isn't as good (profitable) for me, or any other player who has +EV. In the long run, you're better off NOT pissing people off. If you don't mind that affect, then go right ahead.
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I think you can say pretty much whatever you want during a hand, so long as it doesn't harm a 3rd-party involved in the pot. Some folks might not even draw the line at that. In any event, unless you are skilled at that sort of thing, it is as likely to backfire as it is to succeed.
Tourney starts at 6:30, unlimited $10.00 rebuys for staggered amounts at the first three levels. T200 to start, rebuts T200 1st level, T300 2nd level, T400 3rd level. You can add on T400 or T800 at the break. Tonight there were 93 entrants and 299 rebuys and add ons with a prize pool of $3,920 and T127,000 in play. 1st prize was $1,380, 2nd $900, 3rd $480, 11th thru 18th got a whopping $20.00.
I begin my tale when we were down to 14 players. UTG, a good, solid player, Frank Rite makes it T1,800 to go. Blinds are T300-T600 and antes are T200. Both table are seven handed. So there is T3,300 in blinds and antes before his T1,800 bet. There are two folds when it gets to me and I look and find AKc. I push all in for T8,900, everyone folds to Frank who debates for 30 seconds and calls. He has enough to cover me plus an additional T1,000. I turn over my hand and he shows pocket 10's. Flop, turn and river give a board of J,5,5,J,3 and I lose.
I love my all in raise here in spite of the result. I forced an excellent player to make a tough decision at a crucial point in the tournament. Frank had to have known that his call was mathmatically correct given his hand and the possible holdings I might have had to push it all in, given the money already committed to the pot. He had to decide whether to risk busting out and getting $20.00 versus the near certainty that, with his remaining uncommitted chips, he could survive to at least a final table finish. I would have arrived at the same decision as he did if I were in his situation. I believe we both played the hand perfectly. My raise gave him an opportunity to make a mistake, but he didn't do so. I hope Frank went on to win the whole thing.
Deleted at the demand of the poster.
Love your move. I don't like Frank's initial raise to 1800 at all. It seems like he was committed to calling a reraise, so he should have "signalled" that by putting at least half of his stack, or about 5k in. With his raise to only 1800, he allowed someone like you to force the action and put him in a bind, where the best he could hope for was to call as a small favorite or a big dog.
Additionally, with the antes, the big blind will be getting great odds to call if it is folded around. Counting the antes and Frank's initial raise, the BB will be looking at 4100 for a 1200 call. Withe the antes in play, a "pot-size" raise to about 5k is in order here.
It seems like he wanted to give himself a chance to get away from the hand, but then put you on AK, or some other hand he could beat. Unless he had a great read on you, I think he just got lucky and guessed right. After all, it is a lot more likely that you are making this move with AK or JJ-AA than it is with 99 or 88.
unless you never make these plays with big pairs its a hard call for anybody. you did what i do in these spots. i still feel you are misrepresenting yourself when you say you are a recreational player. you look like a pro, act like a pro and talk like a pro. you are either a pro or a duck.
O.K. Ray, but before I answer your question about which I am, you'll have to answer mine. Is it duck hunting season in Montana?
Deleted at the demand of the poster.
John,
I consider an all in bet a lot differently to, say a $2k or $3K bet in this situation. Everything being equal I am more proned to call an all in bet in this situation more often than I would call a smaller but substancial bet.
Maybe it is because if I had AA here I'd be betting $2K to $4K looking for a call.
Rounder,
Against good competition you have to consider where you are in the tournament, your chip position, his chip position, your hand, his possible hands, the possible consequences to each of you from a loss or a win here, and the potential each of you would have to place highly without playing this hand right now.
I knew that Frank might have bet the $1,800 with the intention of throwing it away if someone put a lot of pressure on him. I also knew that he would probably put his whole stack in and call if he was betting a big pair or AK and almost nothing else. The T4,100 in the pot that would be mine if he folded, plus the risk he had to feel when I pushed it all in, combined to make me confident that I was doing the right thing. I knew that Frank would have to weigh all the factors before calling unless he had AA or KK. I figured that if he had QQ, JJ, 10-10, or AK, he would make the call about half the time. My all in bet of T8,900 would leave him only T1,000 if he lost and make him the shortest stack in the game. If he knew that I had AKc before he called, he would have had an easy call because of the pot odds and the fact that he was a slight favorite. If he believed that I would only make this move against him with AA,KK,QQ,JJ or AK, which is probably the range of actual hands I would have needed at this point, considering my comfortable stack size and the payout structure, he should have thrown his hand away. The fact that he called means that he figured I'd make this move with several more holdings than bigger pairs and AK.
BTW, I talked to Gus, another friend of mine yesterday, and he told me that he, Frank and another player chopped the top three spots three ways. It is nice to know that he didn't squander all those chips he got from me.
John I'm not saying I'd have called you here with TT. I just can't say that now as you know it is situational.
I have made similar calls in similar situations with 55 because of the player involved.
Your raise was a world class play here - would you have done the same thing with AA or would you try to entice a call with say a a $3000/$4000 bet to win the T$4100 ($1400 ante $900 blinds and $1800 bet) pot.
Rounder,
I hope you don't think I'd really answer that question?
Actually, against any player I would probably raise it all in also. The T4,100 without a flop looks very appetizing to me. If you have T8900 an can pick up T4,100 without risking being drawn out on, that is usually what you would prefer to do.
John just taking notes for future reference. :-)
Yes "ducky" but he question is would you still raise all in if you knew he would call? His raise is right on the money for a medium/high pair in his position. 3 times the blinds. You must have read him wrong. Your bet was made in hopes he would fold. He didn't.
"I love my all in raise here in spite of the result. I forced an excellent player to make a tough decision at a crucial point in the tournament"
I guess Ray was correct. This is the statement of a "duck" not a (confident) "pro". What possible pleasure can be derived from losing in this situation. Making an "excellant player make a tough decision" is hardly a reaon to celebrate. You must be "ducking" the real issue. A call/fold just may have been a better play.
Vince.
Vince,
There was never a point when I considered calling. AKc would be a terrible hand to just call with here against a good player. I'm trying to win the T4,100 right here and now. I succeed here and I have 10% of the chips in the game and I'm the tallest stack at my table. I either raise all in or I throw the hand away. If I believe he has anything other than KK or AA, it is a great all in move. Since I have AKc, take a guess as to how many hands he could have had like AK,AQ,QQ,JJ, 10-10,9-9 rather than AA or KK.
I'm not claiming to be anything other than a duck (unless it is currently duckhunting season). You see me as a duck and try to feed me the wisdom of a pigeon. Whatever happened to the boldness you used to expouse?
Your question about whether I would have moved all in if I had known that he would call. That is very difficult to answer correctly. I know how this player plays. Half the time he held QQ, JJ,and AK, he would throw them away after I moved all in. This would depend on the makeup of the players remaining in the tournament, our relative stack sizes and whether he thought I might be getting out of line. If he calls, I'm getting at least marginal pot odds for the chances my hand would have. When I saw his 10c-10s and my AKc boarded face up before the flop after he had called, I was neither surprised nor too disappointed. I would have preferred in this order: him folding, him calling, me folding without making the all in move. If we say that I had approximately 46% equity in the pot before the flop, (because one 10 was a club) with T20,100 in the pot that 46% comes out to T9,246. You shouldn't base your assumptions only on how the hand played out. If you add in the money I win that percentage of the time those pocket tens hit the muck, my EV on this play is pretty good. I think that most experienced NL tourney players would make my move against a known good player. With Frank crippled and my big stack if I win here, my overall chances for one of the top three payouts have improved significantly.
These 5 BIG mistakes coat me plenty last night. NL HE Tournament was $55 buy in unlimited rebuys and $3000 added. 58 entered and $13,500 total prize pool.
I have no idea what I could have been thinking when I didn't play thses hands - maybe I lost my courage or maybe my personal life is affecting my poker play what ever the reason I have to fix this problem or else.
I'm posting this as a sort of critique of what could have been a super tournament experience. Please don't be to critical of my play I already feel bad eneough.
I make only one add on at the break so my out lay was only $105 total.
Mistakes:
1. Early on blinds 10-20 I'm mid position with 99 make it $50 - it's raised to $150 and called by loose aggressive players. I muck and 9 hits board. Would have won with 9's full of 6's over KK-66.
2. 25-50 blinds QQ 2 all in bets by weak players before I act I fold them Q hits the river would have cracked the AA's.
3. Fold KQh on the button to a big bet from bad player who had 8 rebuys in the 1st 1/2 hour no flop.
4 Late 14 players left (7 each table left) blinds 400-800 I have $3200 I fold A7 on button with NO callers and blinds look beat. No flop. I suk.
5. Last one - mid position $3800 in front of me 800-1600 blinds - one desperate caller playing before the blinds wipe him out another bully puts 1600 I muck a AT - flop comes ATx K high wins it. I am ready to puke just I'd have over $9000 now with just winning this hand and have a chance at the $5000 prize.
I didn't play poorley except for these hands I actually made some brillant plays during the 3 hours I played but in retrospect these errors cost me plenty and are about of character for me. I have no Idea what happened I had a great table image and was alert only thing I can put it down to is mental lapse at crucial times.
I'm trying again tonight and hope I snap out of this funk.
Maybe I have some sort of death wish.
Comments.
Well, just one comment, you are being a little harsh on yourself by playing the "I would've" game when the flop comes up after you fold. I'm sure you know this anyway but your decision in case (1) for example with the nines is right or wrong at the time you make it. Flopping a nine doesn't change it. As an aside, it is impossible to comment on this play without knowing how big your stack was.
As I say, I'm sure you know this when your head is straight, but it's worth reminding any new players of this. In the meantime, I hope you can sort things out and I would advise not playing if your mind is not wholly on the game. Trying to play through it is maybe not such a good idea.
Andy.
www.pokersoft.co.uk
Andy,
It isn't the woulda shoulda coulda deal it is the bad plays in good position with chips or rebuy possibilities. I never mind mucking a hand correctly even when the flop is to it. That is part of the game.
These hands were solid and against flakey opponents that I knew were not playing solid poker.
What I do mind is a bad lay down for the wrong reasons.
Cheers
Correct me if I'm wrong but mistake #2 was a good lay down. Two all in bets, I don't care how weak the players, I would have folded QQ. As it turned out you would have gotten very lucky on the river but in NL you never want to chase and that's what you would have been doing if you called.
Yeah maybe I was tough on myself but I was in a rebuy period and the risk reward for the triple up that early would have made a difference.
But your probably correct I was definately looking at an over pair if not 2.
It appears to me that you're being overly harsh on yourself.
Rounder wrote: 1. Early on blinds 10-20 I'm mid position with 99 make it $50 - it's raised to $150 and called by loose aggressive players. I muck and 9 hits board. Could have won with 9's full of 6's over KK-66.
Not a terrible mistake, and may correct. If you know that the raiser needs an overpair to make this raise, then you can only play to flop a set. I don't know how much of your stack it would take to call the extra T100, but if it's a lot, then folding isn't bad. A call, hoping to flop a set against this many players, is probably better, but I need more facts to set my opinion.
2. 25-50 blinds QQ 2 all in bets by weak players before I act I fold them Q hits the river would have cracked the AA's.
Again, not terrible. Even if they're weak, they must have an A and a K between them, so you will lose here in the neighborhood of half the time, even if neither has AA or KK. I probably would have called, but it isn't necessarily the correct play. Depends upon the particular make-up of these 2 players.
3. Fold KQh on the button to a big bet from bad player who had 8 rebuys in the 1st 1/2 hour no flop.
Easy fold. Even if he's weak, he can still pick up a good hand. And, of the times you're ahead preflop, in almost no case are you a big favorite. Only if he has exactly Kx or Qx (where x < Q) are you a big favorite.
4. Late 14 players left (7 each table left) blinds 400-800 I have $3200 I fold A7 on button with NO callers and blinds look beat. No flop. I suk.
I agree that this is a mistake. The small blind will likely fold anything but a monster hand, and the big blind will be 1 of 2 types. He will call with the large majority of his hands, because you're obviously stealing. If he's this type, then you're a favorite. Or, he will fold all but the very best hands. In this case, you win the blinds the large majority of the time. Either way, you win (on average).
5. Last one - mid position $3800 in front of me 800-1600 blinds - one desperate caller playing before the blinds wipe him out another bully puts 1600 I muck a AT - flop comes ATx K high wins it. I am ready to puke
This is like #3. There is obviously some chance you've got the best hand. However, I would think that there must be a pretty good (> 1/3) chance that you don't. And when you do, you probably won't be much of a favorite. So, a fold appears correct to me, especially since it's late in the game and you can sit back and wait for others to knock themselves out. Plus, you'd rather be the raiser in a spot where you expect everyone to fold. If you reraise here, the bully is probably pot stuck, and will often call.
It sounds like you're not in the best frame of mind, and you've said before that you can't win with your A- game, only your A+ game. Therefore, I recommend taking a break, and doing something else just for relaxation, with no money on the line.
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Greg,
Thanks for the analysis - I agree with most of it.
Inretrospect I know every tournament I have placed high in I had seminal moments like the AT or A7 hands where I make a bold play for alot of chipa and win it usually pulls me to victory or a high finish.
I also play the players really well in NL HE and I knew these were bad plays as soon as I mucked them.
1st 3 were marginal and probably the QQ was a good laydown but the 99 was early and the rebuy period was ineffect and I had over $600 in front of me. A call was in order here as it turned out the guy with kk would have certainly called a big bet.
OH well - I think I'll meditate and try to improve my concentration.
One question when did the 9 come, on the flop, turn, or river. In this situation you probably could've called (its questionable in my mind, but I play very tight) but if the nine doesn't show up on the flop you're probably going to have to fold depending on the action and the board, the only situation were you might continue is if you have an overpair and there is only a little action but if someone makes a move and you don't have a set your gonna have to pass.
flop was 973 -
flop was 973 - 66 on turn or river. I had the nuts.
O.K Who is attending the Foxwoods Tournamnet Starting Nov 29?
Vince
I know that you know this Vince, but for the information of other readers, I will mention that I will be attending at least 6 days of the tournaments.
I have lived here for just over one year now, so last year was my first WPF. However, I highly recommend them to our audience here. The tournaments were well run, give you lots of play for your money, and the fields are softer than any other major tournament that I've played in.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Vinny,
I have heard alot of nice things about Foxwoods but few of us out here in the S/W even know where it is.
I was going to call them today as I am between Foxwoods and the Sr. tourney at Crystal Park in LA. I have a bunch of free S/W air free tickets so the flight expense is meaningless.
What is the nearest airport and how far from the casino?
Rounder,
S/W flies into Providence, RI. T.F Green airport is about 45 miles from FW. Avis or National usually have the best rental car deals. There is a shuttle but I believe it is around $75 one way unless you can find someone to share with, The problem with FW compared to CP is hotel costs. CP has a great rate at the Hotel there. I belive it's 35/45 weekdays/weekend. FW is much higher.
S/W may also fly into New London CT. It's closer. Or Hartford, About the same as Providence. I have No Car info for those locations.
Vince.
I am pretty sure that SWA does not fly into Hartford (which is also about 45 minutes from Foxwoods).
The Groton/New London airport is only big enough for "puddle-jumpers", not full-size passenger planes, so I doubt much of anyone flies there.
The rates at FW are very high, and you won't get comped all that much for playing poker. I would recommend a rental car and a stay at someplace 5-20 minutes away, where you can probably get a much lower rate.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Rounder this may help. I would recommend Prov. airport it is really nice and on time flights. TF Green. Plus SWA flys there.
Paul
HOTEL RESERVATIONS 1-800-FOXWOOD When making reservations: TWO TREES INN $55 per night (please use group code#3792) GREAT CEDAR HOTEL $66 per night (please use group code#2121)
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If you can get this $55 rate, that is a very good deal.
However, I've heard that they are sold out of rooms at this rate. Of course, it can't cost you more than a couple of minutes to call and find out if my info is wrong.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
if you cant find a room im sure both Fossil Man and Paul Feeney will take up to 20 2+2 posters for the duration of the tournament at their houses. id go for Fossil man's place as Paul Feeney will drive you plum batty. Just say Vince sent you and insist on breakfast.
O.K Ray have your fun. Just wait until Paul and Big John want to travel to Montana and meet Papa Bear. You'll be sorry!
Vince.
Of course, if you learn to be nice, they may take Brenda with them. "Havin your baby" doo, dah, doo, dah!
Any preference between the Foxwoods tournaments and the one at the Taj in Atlantic City. Both are about the same time. Which is better?
Ratso,
To be honest, I don't know. I am in New England for a while and Foxwoods is convenient. It makes you wonder why they would run both at the same time. They must have had success this way or you would think they would come to a comprimise. Interesting.
Vince
Ray good Idea.
I am leaning towards the Seniors but the East coast looks good too.
I'll let you guys know what one I choose and I am sure both will have plenty of 2+2ers there.
What ever one I go to I'd like to meet any regulars to say hi and put a face with the name.
to Vince, I heard a rumor on rgp that the tournaments were at the same time because of constraints on room availability at both locations. I know rooms are always short at FW, and apparently that is often true at AC as well. Apparently the first half of December is very slow for both casinos, so that is when upper management will allow the poker rooms to run their tournaments.
As for which is better, everyone I know who played at both last year and had an opinion preferred FW by a landslide. The events at AC cost more, but had smaller fields. So, the overall prize pool was bigger at FW I think, and you risked less money (but had to beat more players to reach the money). From personal experience, the fields are pretty weak at FW.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
The satellites in AC are huge. They have additional tables on the casino floor roped off. I'm going there Tuesday. I'll let you all know what it's like. They are cheap to buy into and some of the table are very weak (as my friends tell me). Friends passing through FW tell me it is very nice but very crowded
I don't know about the fields since I can't find any info in that regard concerning Foxwoods. A couple of things though which might be better in A.C.
1. Chances are you won't have to wait very long to get into a side game in Taj. In Foxwoods however you might wait a very very long time. Also there will be almost twice as many side games in Taj as apposed to Foxwoods.
2. On top of the regular tournament schedule in Taj they will also offer second chance tournaments I believe thursday thru sunday. These should be $200 to get into. So you can potentially play in two tournaments in one day.
One other note the Trop will probably have some tournaments running at the same time as well in $100, $200 range.
Just wondering if anyone had any opinions on Poker Tournament Strategies by Sylvester Suzuki?
James Flames
I have read it and some of the advice is spot on specially the discussions of how the different tournamets change at different stages. Worth the money.
I also like TJ Cloutiers NL PL HE it has done more for my tournament game than any other book and I have read or seen most of them. Probably cuz TJ has many similar ideas about certain hands as I have and since I came to my conclusions independently.
Someone at the Gamblers Book Club implied to me that Suzuki is really Mason Malmuth. Is it true?
No. He is a retired Japanese man who wants to keep his idenity private. He does however play a lot of small stakes tournaments. I am the publisher of the text and I did spend time working on the manuscript to make sure that it was very accurate. But I am not the author.
Mason,
You are always getting things mixed up. I think he asked you if you drove a Suzuki not if you are one.
Vince.
Mason,
Is he a So. Cal. player? I have a friend, an American of Japanese descent named George. He once brought up that particular title, asking me whether or not I had read the book. When I asked him if he were the author he seemed a tiny bit unsettled for a second before replying negatively. The man I'm thinking of has a wealth of experience playing small buy-in tournaments but has never won a major tournament title.
I know you cannot answer me, so I guess this was a rhetorical question. In any event, the next time I see him I'll probe him further on this question. If Stanley could find Livingstone then I guess Big John can find Sylvester Suzuki.
I don't think the book is worth buying.
Does anybody know what has become of Tuna Lund? I haven't seen his picture or name in any of the tournament result sections of Card Player for more than a year, maybe two.
Was that big tuna or little tuna - I have met them both.
Vince Burgio is a good friend of Tuna's. He told me one year ago that Tuna was going through a divorce.
Tuna must be in one of those dreadfull dry spells that all world class tournament players must eventually experience. One thing is for sure, he's bleeding. We know he is obviously losing in tournaments. And since he is not known to play much live games he must be losing at poker overall. Maybe he's got non-poker "outs" (business, investment) but we can't be sure of that. This is a reminder for all of us that we must be humble and that we must manage our bankrolls with the assumption that the next sickening losing streak is just around the corner.
Someone told me that he has had eye surgery and might have missed going to tournaments at all for a long time. Sorry, I don't remember who told me that. I think someone also mentioned that he attended the recent Peppermill tourney.
Well put Kojee!
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I asked this same question of some of Tuna's friends in Reno. They said that he went through a divorce and now has custody of his children and doesn't have a lot of time left over for poker tournaments.
"this should be a reminder to not spout of about stuff you don't know shit about."
Go Badger baby! Don't sugar coat it! Tell him what you think. Yeh man who does he thibk he is? What a horrible thing to say! Yeasssss!
Vince
BTW - who's Tuna Man?
Steve,
Isn't, or wasn't he having some pretty severe vision problems in the past year or two? Perhaps to the point where he wasn't able to read the board cards? I know I heard something like that from a tournament regular when someone else was asking why Tuna wasn't playing much anymore.
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Is Moose777 really a bearded man, Badger?
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No. Just curious.
Hay Don,
You spoke a little too soon. If you look on page 97 of the latest Card Player Magazine, you'll see that Tuna finished 3rd in a $100 no-limit hold'em event. It's right smack-dab in the middle of the page, ya can't miss it.
Last hand of tourney: No limit, blinds are at 800/1600. We have nearly even chips (only two players left. I had a little more (like 19,000 to 18000).
I'm in the BB with 4h 2d. SB blinds $800. BB (me) blinds $1600. Pot is now $2400. SB calls $800. Pot is now $3200. BB (me) checks. Board: 5c 4s Th SB checks. BB (me) checks. Turn: 6d SB bets $3200. Pot is now $6400. BB (me) calls $3200. Looking for a 3 for a straight. Pot is now $9600. River: The beautiful3s SB bets $9600. Pot is now $19200. BB (me) raises $5600 all in. SB calls all in. Board: 5c 4s Th 6d 3s Players' hands: SB: Kh Ks BB(me): 4h 2d
Straight takes it down. A few thoughts: The other player clearly missed a bet on the flop. If he had bet at all I would have folded. His bet on the turn gave me 3-1 on a gutshot. Obviously not good odds, is the call that bad and was the river card a miracle? Overall I think the SB mis-played his hand terribly and I got relatively lucky on the end.
SB should have been all in pre-flop or on the flop with the KK he stupidly slow played it and paid a price.
Reading the comments about Phil Hellmuth great tournament player and not so successful ring player I got to thinking about the adjustments and differences on my game.
Like a lot of you I like to play tournaments and ring games - a lot of the players play the same game in Limit, NL tournaments and limit ring games. I don't my NL game is very different than my limit tournament play and both vary from my ring game play I was just wondering how many of you adjust your game and adapt to different situations by playing much differently depending on the circumstances.
I am entering a NL HE tournament this evening. It has $25 buy-in, same rebuys and one add-on. I have only ever played in one tournament before; it was a limit and I was the last one to be knocked out before the last table which is in the money here. Limited to 40 players but I doubt that there will be 40 attending as it is a little out of the way. I know how most of the locals play in ring games and can do OK there even though I am a rookie as I have studied up pretty good and usually play alright. I am not sure how to change strategy for this tourny. I have ordered HEAP and theory of Poker but have not recieved them yet. Have read Ken Warrens Low-limit HE and Thursday Night Poker mostly plus all the essays on 2 plus 2. Thanks for any tips.
Dave you'll get this to late for your NL tournament but here is what I think (know) is a winning strategy.
Survival, you can't win if you are not there.
Until the break don't do bust on anything but KK and AA see cheap flops and make big bets unless you HAVE it don't draw and don't play drawing hands.
Get a very tight table image - after the break when the blinds are a higher loosen up somewhat. Make larger bets in good position and if you did the right job in the 1st part they will fold to you.
Don't bet the blind EVER - always be raising and be on the lead - in no limit it is not about the cards it is about aggression and domination.
BUT you have to last the 1st 3 or 4 rounds. Out last the dead money 50 to 75% of the field and you're in with a chance.
One thing to keep in mind is when playing short handed six or less players - your starting hand requirements go way down - K7 is a great hand on the button when passed to you BUT you better not call here you need a substancial bet.
I wish you success
Rounder, I just got your message this a.m. but believe it or not I followed your advice anyway. Have been following your posts this last two months and understand your philosophy pretty well I think. I reread the post darse billings? had on BORG when he was giving advice to a tourney newbie and it seems just like what you are saying. Anyway believe it or not I won the whole thing. 22 players about 50 rebuys and 20 addons for a pot of 1650 of which I got %40. First NL HE. I really followed your advice and before I made a play said "Rounder says pitch this hand". Couldn't believe it when 5 players called my raise in the first rounds when I had the best hand by far. Later I stole quite a few blinds when I had a big pile of money. I am definately buying a few books from 2 plus 2 about tourneys with this money as I have got a lot of help from their site. Mentally, I felt that I was better than anyone else there which is crazy except that in two months of real hard (obsessive) studying I do know more than I should. I really thought that no one could beat me but the fact is that I got good cards last night. Again, thanks for always replying and giving your best experience. I know that experience probably cost you a lot of money to get and everyone on theis site is real good about helping a new player.
Congrats Dave,
Don't forget to start a record of tournaments include buyin and any rebuys you spend money on, casino, type of tourney and amount won. This will help you analyze your game in future and also know how your doing.
I'd suggest Suzuki's 2+2 Tournament Strategies and TJ Cloutier's Championship NL PL Hold'em - you'll have to re-read this one a few times to pickup on TJ's unorthodox but solid tournament strategy.
For the first 3/4 or more of the tournament, I think you should play to win chips. Being eliminated isn't a good enough reason to pass up a favorable chance to win chips. During this portion of the tournament, you have to win chips in order to reach the money stages, so you shouldn't pass up good opportunities to do so.
During this period, the major adjustments I make are related to the changes that my opponents make, and the changes required by stack size.
For example, if I see a guy who just got cracked raise, I know he may be on tilt, and I may be more inclined to play than otherwise. Other players loosen up a lot if they have a big stack, so you can play a few more hands when they raise. Finally, some players tighten up significantly in certain situations (usually when they're short-stacked, but some tighten up to protect a big stack they just won), and you need to be aware of this and be less inclined to play when they come in.
As for stack size, it doesn't do much good to limp in with suited connectors after a bunch of others limp in, if everyone (or you) only has a couple of bets in front of them. One reason to play a hand like this is all the money you can win AFTER you make your hand. Here, by the time you make your hand, everyone will have folded or gone all-in (so there are no implied odds available). Same thing with small pairs. The implied odds aren't as good, because you or the opposition often runs out of chips before the river.
Once you reach the money stage, that's when you really make adjustments from a normal ring-game strategy.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Thanks, Greg. Did not get your post in time for last night's game but fortunately I did figure out about the implied odds and threw my suited connectors away early after I didn't flop and caught on about the lack of further betting. Was my first tourney; fortunately I think a pretty easy one to be in. Poker is new to this area and a few old-timers have played quite a bit in other cities but there were a few rookies there and a lot of dealers from the next place as they seem to be off Sunday. I need to work on end play; and will order some books today. maybe you and Rounder have good book suggestions for tourney play. Thanks.
I know the most profound adjustment I make between NL Hold-em tournaments and NL Hold-em ring games.
I usually hold my money up and yell "rebuy" at tournaments. In ring games, I hold it up and yell "chips".
Sometimes, in tournaments, the tourney director will come by and say: "Sorry, Big John, this is a no rebuy tournament." Sometimes they claim that the rebuy period ended before I went broke this last time. In either case, they assist me in getting up out of the seat I'm occupying and point me towards the nearest exit from the tournament area.
In ring games they don't seem to have this mercy ruling yet, continually allowing me to exchange bills for money until I run out of both at the same sitting. I hope this helps in your quest to develop a winning tournament and ring game strategy.
I like the idea of the nonsmoking tournament. As a reformed smoker (4 packs a day) I do not mind the smoke and haze of a smoke filled card room. But there were some side beneifts to the no smoking event.
During satellites I noticed players running out after their blinds and returning a few hands later. Seemed strange to me that they would miss their best positions and then noticed they were in the lobby sucking on the cigs. What a joke these guys couldn't go an hour with out their fix.
I also noticed the smokers getting anxious during the longer sessions - we need more no smoking events.
I wish Foxwoods was non-smoking.
Paul
Finally, a tournament where manslaughter and murder with the use of second hand smoke is illegal. Hooray!
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gee Badger your taking over all my platforms. whats going to be left for me to preach about. but after playing in cal. how can you go back to vegas. if you figure your extra per hour gain during the tournaments minus the loss of lifetime you get extra small amount of dollars but less time to spend them. although i may go back to vegas for a tournament it should be a short trip.
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Question regarding money management:
I have pretty good success starting NL tournaments. Usually make it to the final 4 or 5. But then, I always seem to make the wrong move. I usually end up playing too tight, and losing my blinds.
I know I need to loosen up some, does anyone have any general suggestions on how to get a feel for when to take a chance and make a move?
You definitely need to go loose aggressive when it is down to just the 3 of you. But I think that you should stay tight aggressive when you're down to 5. It's 4 handed that confuses me but I would lean towards loose aggressive if I'm either the big stack or the little stack and lean towards tight aggressive when I'm somewhere in between.
Holy - think in terms of your big card when you get down to 5 or less a King with 2 passers is a good hand. Any pair is golden and needs a big bet. Ax is an all in with a couple of passers. Loosen up near the end and you won't be sorry.
It is time to take control of things and kick some boody.
The thing to do is to look for situations. You want to raise preflop when you believe that everyone else will fold, or when you have a hand that is likely to be the best one out there (and then you don't mind getting played with).
If you fold on the button just because you have weak cards, that isn't good enough. Many times, you will be in a situation where both blinds will fold much more than 50% of the time, so you should raise with anything. Other times, you have a good stack, but one of the blinds has more, and you know that they are likely to put pressure on you no matter what you do. In such a case, you fold even a pretty good hand, rather than risk being outplayed by a big stack.
Think about what you expect the opponents to do BEFORE you look at your cards. You might find that the best play is clear already. Plus, you can decide in advance what hands you'll fold or raise with, and then when you do look, the play will be immediate and decisive, which is usually a good thing.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
You write: "Other times, you have a good stack, but one of the blinds has more, and you know that they are likely to put pressure on you no matter what you do. In such a case, you fold even a pretty good hand, rather than risk being outplayed by a big stack."
The other option with "a pretty good hand", an option which is often better when the blinds are large and those sitting on the blinds have much bigger stacks, is simply to move in with everything. Once you are all-in, they'll throw their cheese away most of the time. If you get unlucky and they have that monster, then that's just tough. A call is most definitely a mistake, even sitting last, because the bigger stacks have so many more options against you on the flop. This lesson came at a very high price to me, late on day 2 last year.
its called choking and we all get it to some extent. in order to win in big anything you have to have a small regard for the outcome. you have to develop that from within. or you can just make big stands at opportune times like most players do and that works ok.
I think choking is too strong. I believe that most of us are too conditioned to the need to avoid putting ourselves in danger. In the end game at tournaments, there is almost always someone who steps forward and gets bold. Half the time, this bold one gets chopped into dogmeat and ends up the next one busted. The other half of the time, his boldness is rewarded when no one plays with him or, he prevails when played with. The timid majority, who studiously avoided any and all chances to play themselves, lament the fact that they "never seem to catch a rush" like our bold protagonist. The simple truth is that you can't get a rush if you don't play any but the biggest starting hands. I've always felt that the boldest at the table had a decided edge. I heard that Ray Zee was bold in ring games; does that hold true in tournaments also?
yes , i was always bold when i used to play tournaments. i did very well and had a superb record. my chips went up from the point when players clammed up trying to get in the money. i learnt my lessions well. i choked a few times and clammed up as well. anted myself to a position where i made my stand with weak hands and didnt like it. i found out quick that people dont want to go broke early or late. so steal their small pots. choking is exactly what it is.
Boldness probably comes naturally to those of us with more optimism than common sense. I've always loved to watch a player agonize in the BB with his pocket 6's after I pushed it all in with any two cards first in from the button. I had a friend ask me what he should do once when he was in the BB in this situation, I looked back at my hole cards, smiled, and told him truthfully that I had one overcard to his pair. He threw his hand away face up and I showed my 8-3o. I tried explaining to him after the tournament that I was betting into his stacksize and the timid way he had been defending his blinds. In the context of what I expected, I was betting that he wouldn't call me with anything other than a big pair or AK and possibly, AQ. It didn't matter what my hand was, since I was betting against his having one of the abovementioned ones in order to call me. He still doesn't understand that my bet had a positive expectation even with it being 8-3o.
its players like you John that make others have to take a chance in order to win.
The secret to NL HE is putting a man to a decision for all his chips. Anyone who doesn't believe that is playing limit poker or losing at NL.
Forget the cards it's the stacks and man that counts.
Well cards help some.
BTW - John - I'll be there for sure next Fri. be looking for NL satellites and tourneys. I really don't care to play ring games when I'm in tourney mode. See you there.
Ray,
There is the added advantage that certain of my playing idiosyncrasies make it much more likely that I will be called by someone when I bet. I take maximum advantage of this by being able to move stronger when I do have the goods in early position. I have claimed for a long time that I earn quite a bit more from my premium hands than most players in tournaments. The main reason for this is that my style of play conditions the table to want to get involved in a hand with me. The less astute lower the threshold of their calling requirements in order to avail themselves of an opportunity to play a hand with me. It is a good thing to be seen as a "maniac" at a tournament table when everyone is trying to zero in on the weakest link to double through on.
I do make others take chances in order to win. Much of the time, by exploiting my "loose" image, I get them to take chances when they have far the worst of it. I've also observed that some players continue to play you the same way even when it should be obvious to them that you've altered your playing style. Not every player can pose as a moron for a sustained period of time. Of course, it may also be that, in my case, it is no pose.
Final table nl tournament 8 players left last hand 200-400blinds ,blinds are going to 400-800 I have 3200 in chips sb only one with smaller stack 2400 every one passes to me I amone off the button holdQd8d bet 1200 small blind goes all in,I threw it away
Now there are 2 $2400 stacks - but you need some kind of holding to steal - Ax Kx maybe - Were the sb and bb known raisers or tighter players?
Your muck was good but don't try a steal again at this table you'll be called for sure.
Reasonable pre-flop play.
SB had a hand - unlucky for you.
Good laydown - unless your opponent was a moron.
"moron". You seem to like that word. Are you really a moron?
You should have called, or never tried to steal in the first place.
You've committed too much of your stack to give up now. After the SB raises, there is T4800 in the pot, with you having T2000 to call. I don't think you can afford to give that up, especially since folding with make you the shortest stack. Folding here makes it highly likely that you won't do any better than 6th or 7th place, with 8th place being your most likely finish. Calling here is probably greater than 50% you'll lose and finish 8th, but a win will move your stack up to T6800, which is plenty with the new 400,800 blinds that are just about to start.
Unless most of the other players had MUCH more than you in chips (say T20,000 and up), then you have enough chips to steal with, since someone with T5,000 - T10,000 doesn't want to risk 30-60% of their stack trying to bust you unless they have a hand. However, stealing is high risk, and you should only do it when you're willing to follow through. Especially if this is your home club's weekly tournament, and you'll be playing with these guys again. You don't want them to know that they have a good shot at beating you by reraising with anything (because you'll fold rather than risk elimination).
Since you have to be prepared to follow through anyway, I would advise just pushing all-in immediately. The last thing you need is someone with A5 trying to resteal from you, you call, and then lose to their A high card (that they would have folded preflop if you'd gone all-in).
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Here are two things to think about.
First, it is late in the tournament, so the penalty for you to lose the hand, since you are the shorter stack, is greater than any of your potential opponents.
Second, when it is late in a tournament and you raise with a very short stack, some players when they are in the blind will just call you with anything. This is especially true if they are in very good chip position and you are very short stacked. I don't believe that you are at this point yet, but your opponents may be beginning to think this way. If you believe this is the case, you should be less inclined to play the hand.
Gotta go with your take on this one FossilMan. If I had moved with this hand (and I might have), it would have been all in. But, assuming I found myself in his position after betting T1200 and getting raised another T1200 I'd have to call. When calling, I'd thank my lucky stars that the only one who raised was the player with fewer chips than I. (He can't bust me on this hand)
I can tell you this much, if I'm making a move here with Q8d, I would have to be fairly confident that the remaining players were all weak.
Weak play Hy. Wanna know why Robert H. always gets so "lucky" in the tournaments?
When it gets late and the blinds are high in relation to his stack, he NEVER steal-raises and then folds to a reraise unless it comes from the most predictable of players. In most cases, he takes away the resteal possibility by moving his whole stack in first. You would do well to emulate this style at this stage of the tournament.
Unless I reraise you!
Thanks for the comments.I have come to the conclusion that I should have bet my whole stack or passed.I will be in LaLA land from Dec.1-13 any stud tournaments Thanks Hy
this situation occured to me last week in a nl holdŽem tourney:
8 tables at the beginning, final table gets paid. limits raise every 20 minutes. i got a nice stack after 5 limits, but didnŽt get a single hand for 2 succesive limits. every time there was a raise in front of me, and the best hand i got was something like Q8s. as the blinds were getting pretty big, my stack got smaller and smaller. now the situation, where iŽm not sure, whether it was all right for me to call or not. 17 players left, some of them got small stacks, but there was no way to get down to the final table within one round without winning a pot.i was in the big blind, my stack was 13k, bb 6k, sb 3k. after posting my blind, i got 7k left. a player, whom i know well, raised from first position to a total of 20k. everybody else folded. i knew, that the raiser might raise every pocket pair and every big ace, maybe even a hand like A8 or KJ. i looked down and saw a 65o in my hand. call or not?
If he is coming in UTG, I doubt if it is with A8 or KJ. You didn't say whether there were antes in addition to the blinds. With only 7K left and the 3K sb coming up next, I would be tempted to call here if there were any antes to pick up in addition to the bet, your BB and the SB. If he simply has two overcards without a pair, you aren't in such poor shape and might be able to make significant improvement in your overall chances if you win this confrontation. At least you know that you will only have this one player to beat.
65o is a terrible hand to have to commit with, but this is probably the last hand that you will be able to get enough of a stack in one hand to survive to the money. If you get down to 7K, you might be faced with almost the same situation on the following sb hand with a hand that isn't that much stronger than what you have now.
We often see postings where the decision is a lot more clear cut than this one. I have found myself in situations similar to this one on numerous occasions. I count up the pot, count my remaining chips, look at that darn 65o, say a quick little prayer for divine intervention, and say "I call" in as confident a voice as I can muster. If your opponent has A9c, you are about a 13:7 underdog, and the pot is offering you more than that.
P.S. Please don't share this kind of high level thinking with other tournament players who would rather blind themselves totally out of contention than make a call with their last money with so weak a holding. One of the reasons I hate to make this type of play is that the smarter players see it and make a mental note about how often the "dominated" undercards seem to suck out on the superior raiser's hand. This leads to some of them calling my strong all in raises with nothing but cheese and getting there with it.
This is a tough call I make the call with a Jx but the 65 is so weak. 7K is not much but your still in with a chance - I've went on to win tourneys with less, much less in a similar position. It is NL and you can double up twice and be chip leader from here.
If your holding were better or your chip count was less I go for it but I just want another circuit to see if I can do something with the 7K.
I fold.
Let's see what my friend John did - I have no doubt he called and he may be right too.
you painted yourself into a corner and now do you jump out the window or run thru the new paint and ruin it. dont paint yourself into a corner. unless you just lost the last hand for a large amount of your chips there is no reason that i see to get into this spot. if you are just trying to ante yourself into the money then fold and hope for the impossible. if you were trying to win you couldnt let this happen. what was wrong with the last hand dealt. you would at least win some chips if you got played with and won and would probably win the antes. now you are faced with hoping to win so you can ante 2 more rounds. forget that hand and never do this again.
i doubt, that anybody can help me with this problem, but iŽd like to know, wheter there are oth