Opened wide for crab buffet, get kinda full OTT
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Table - Game had some whales that were blowing chips off to various players, a few good regs took note and table changed and now the table is much worse with a few strong player's on our left. We're on the transfer list.
V1 - Good LAG. Studied. Plays 5/10 and 10/20. WSOP. Full-time. He crushes 1/3. 700$. LJ.
V2 - Loose passive whale. Sticky pre and post. Has a bluffing range. Had to self-exclude awhile back because he was losing too much money. 500$. CO.
Hero - MP just rebought for 500$ after getting rocked with AA vs QQ on a J-T-9-8-7 runout. Might have a tilted vibe (might be somewhat tilted). 500$. MP.
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Folds to H who sees 3♦ 3♣ and opens to 10, V1 just calls (unusual for him to not 3-bet in this spot), V2 calls. 3-ways OOP.
Flop 30 (490 back) - K♦ 7♠ 3♠
H cbets 15, V1 calls, V2 calls
Turn 75 (475 back) - K♣
H checks, V1 bets 65, V2 calls, H x/raises to 200, V1 tank (2-3 minutes) folds, V2 calls
River 540 (275 back) - 9♥
H shoves...
How was my line? Would you have raised flop? Keep trapping until river to keep V1 in?
14 Replies
Looks fine...I think going for the flop c/r is silly. If they're scared of the K they're not going to start piling in money with worse after you c/r, assuming either of them even bets the flop. It would suck for this flop to get checked through.
Everything looks fine unless you wanted to just jam the turn instead of making it 200. I think it would have been a mistake to slowplay with the intention of targeting a good player when you have a bad player giving action.
Grunch:
Raise bigger pre.
Seriously, when are you going to make this adjustment?
I hate the flop c-bet. A check-raise would be better. We have worse value hands that can just go bet bet bet, like our good top pair combos. With bottom set on a K-high, two-tone board, unblocking top pair and the flush draws, our hand benefits from check raising to quickly build the pot.
Imagine checking, V1 stabbing at it, which he's likely to do, and V2 calling, which also seems likely, then putting in a 5x x/r. Neither are likely to fold strong Kx or a flush draw yet. We might be able to get stacks in against K7 or KXss.
As played, I love the turn check, but think our raise size should be larger, like $260. When you just 3x it, it looks like pure value and no bluffs.
This is the problem with not check raising the flop. It's hard for us to be bluffing here, and hard for either of our opponents to have a strong enough hand to call a check raise leading to a 0.5 SPR on the river.
If we check raised flop, and got called by Kx, it would be really hard for Kx to fold turn when we bet again. Some flush draws are also calling, while drawing dead.
When we c-bet the flop, we're not giving ourselves a good enough chance to get stacks in, so we HAVE to check raise the turn. Otherwise we'll have $410 back going to the river with only $270 in the pot. But check raising the turn for a smallish size just looks so strong. We're basically playing face up at this point.
River shove when spades brick seems pretty automatic, but other than Kx, or better boats, what's calling?
I don't know. I hate the idea of V checking back, but I could see checking to induce. Our line just looks so strong that I think checking may be higher EV than jamming.
Looks OK to me. With this hand, I prefer to raise small or limp, even if it is exploitable to vary sizing by hand. I would usually not go this small, and would not go small with my entire range, but I don't see a problem. You don't want to raise really big with a small pp and get it HU.
On the flop, x/r seems probably better to target Ks and flush draws. As the ep raiser though, this is a board that looks good for you and which you might cbet if you missed.
With 2 players, x/r turn is best. Don't want to price everyone in cheap with draws out there.
No one thinks my open was too wide?
IMO it is terrible to open fold a pp in a 1/3 game.
Of course it is a GTO fold, and it is a fold in a game with mostly HU pots and a lot of 3-betting. In a 1/3 game, you have multiway pots and people playing anything resembling a playable hand. You are getting good immediate pot odds to hit a set and they can make all sort of 2 pair, which they can't get away from.
Result:
don't see what opening larger would do, i think stupid banana played it as well as a stupid banana is capable of playing
Good job on recognizing when the table has gone bad and made a move to get off it, imo.
When I'm at a bad table with solid players behind me and awaiting a table change, I tighten way up. 33 in MP is usually a fold for me at the best of times, but a trivial one in this poor situation.
With the sticky whale in the hand I'd start hammering the flop to build a pot ASAP. So I'd PSB+.
I guess I can get behind our check/raise plan on the turn, although having this check thru would be a disaster (so I probably lean to hammering it again).
River might be a little interesting as he's obviously never calling with a busted draw (but might bluff), and meanwhile he might bet Kx himself. I don't mind the shove (guarantees getting paid off by Kx that might sometimes MUBSy check behind) but a check is worth considering (especially since we probably shake all his pocket pairs on the turn), imo.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Well played. It is just going to be hard to tripple up, but it is hard to get stacks in with one player by the river by just betting turn. If we bet 75 on the turn and get two calls, it is still 300 in the pot and 400 to jam. I guess we could still go 300 and target Kx from both players to collect 600 instead of just 400 only having the whale call.
Alternatively we can go 100 on the turn and jam river.
I kind of like the idea of check raising the flop. That is the most plausible street for you to rep a semi-bluff. Turn and river check raises are just too scary. Probably doesn't matter vs whale as much, matter more vs the pro.
Because the whale is in the hand, we might just exploitatively size up on the flop to start setting up turn bomb and river shove.
Fine, well played.
i think it's reasonable to mix between betting and CR on the flop. i would tend to CR with the lower mire vulnerable sets.
On the turn when the K hits it's plausible that one or both your opponents have a K.
In that case (given lack of broadway on board) a call would be more profitable than a raise, as you may get an extra bet and call on the river before jamming.