QQ in position, calling a 4 bet, no overcards hit flop

Call. I’m also calling here with AA, 99 and mixing calls and raises with AcKc.

I think it's absurd to fold QQ on this run out. Call to assess the turn? People over cbet on srp, 3bp and 4bp in live

Blinds: $2/3/5 (Straddle: $5)
Hero: CO (Q♥️ Q♦️)
Villain(s): HJ
Effective Stack: $1, 215

Preflop ($10):
HJ raises $20, Hero 3-bets $60, HJ 4-bets $215

Flop ($285): 9♣️ 7♣️ 4♥️
HJ bets $200

Total pot: $485

Generated by pokerhandhistory.com

Not a massive fan of the call without more explanation, unless we are calling all the way regardless of the run out.. calling flop will leave us with 800 behind and the same in the pot..

What are we doing when V jams an over card or blank turn?

What are you doing preflop with AA, KK, AK?

Now call. HJ may well have JJ or TT themselves and you're not folding at this point. In fact you're fairly high up in range and I'm preparing to call down all the way with QQ. With JJ or TT it becomes very close and I might lean towards folding at some point (whether now or to a turn jam).

Call. V is a wild card from sounds of it and I would want to keep in his bluffs / weaker value.

Interesting data point that in the first hand he 4b so big. I wouldn't assume he is telling the truth about having KK though. Could be multiple explanations for it. Maybe he did have KK and wanted to charge an ace. Maybe he went smaller now because you folded before and he wants a call and might have AA. Maybe he went smaller because he has a BS hand now. I wouldn't presume to know, but it's a piece of the puzzle.

yea def call the flop I mean we didn't call pre to setmine, and his previous 4bet (if he really did have kings) was much bigger. This one feels like it could be AK/TT/JJ.

I play with a few bluff lucky 40-50+ish Filipinos in my card room and I'll tell you I cant stand it. I would say to him "discount?" for betting under his initial preflop bet and if he laughs or starts talking a lot I am believing him and proceeding with serious caution I'd call but I think your always behind. If he doesn't say anything at all he's most likely super full of it.

My girl is Filipino and her mom who loves to play cards has this tell and I've noticed it a lot with Filipinos. They always want to appear fun and even sometimes weak when they have it, but are stone cold when they don't. Also I've noticed they might even say things like "it's not a big bet" or "I hit the flop" or "let's gamble" or "were having fun" RUN if the last phrase is uttered.

If they are already the type that likes to talk a lot at the table this will be more information then you ever need as to how strong their hand is by how much or how little they are talking. On a side note I will tell you my mother in law is the most bluffy luck catching player I've ever seen! Complete wild card is an understatement when she does play you never know if she has the absolute nuts or nothing at all. It's just in their nature to play this way and I don't care if its stereotypical because my kids are half Filipino.

Also know this it's most likely a call that will turn into you playing for stacks just to mention.

Hand discussions with V prior to this hand: H1, when he folded to my SB 3-bet (vs his B open), he said "You must have ace-king minimum." I told him, "No, I would 3-bet with tens, jacks, all kinds of hands." He said, "No, I don't think so." (I had AQs). H2, after I folded to his big 4-bet, he had a back-and-forth with the player in between who had cold-called my 3-bet. That player said he had 66, and acted like he thought V was bluffing, but he folded. I ribbed V for making such a big 4-bet, and he said he wanted me to fold AK/AQ. As played continued, he talked for a while with the player with 66 about his hand, and I eventually told V that I folded AQs.

Regarding the hand in question in this thread, I think the V definitely thinks I would 5 bet KK/AA preflop (though I would have just called with AA, not sure about KK). So on the flop, he is probably thinking my range is TT+ and maybe AQs+.

I was thinking it's tough to just call V's flop bet. What am I going to do if he barrels a scary turn card (A, K, T, J)? Fold? He's the type that could double barrel with a scary turn card. He likes to tank for a long time to scrutinize his opponent. If he has AK, I don't mind him folding to a flop raise right? If he has TT/JJ, he could shove the turn if an undercard hits. If he has KK/AA, he is likely shoving all turns.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but don't tell your opponents your range for common situations.

When you call, just stack off on any turn other than A/K.

There was another Filipino regular, super LAGGY, at that table yesterday. I have a prior history with him, a couple weeks ago, where there was an open, a 3-bet to $100, call, and then he calls on the B, I raise all-in with KK in SB, $800 effective stacks. Folds to him, and he calls with AQo. He flops an A and wins, saying "I thought you were squeezing." Anyway, yesterday, this guy is the 3rd limper in LP, there is a limp behind him, I raise to $50 with AKs. Folds to him and he makes it $200. Effective stacks are $900, so I jam. He tanks for 2 minutes. I say "last time you called me with AQ off, do you remember?" I jog his memory a bit. He says, "this time you are talking, so you are strong" He shows AJo off and folds. He says "last time you were weak." I said "I had kings, I wasn't wek". Is this a bad shove by me? If he almost called with AJo, I guess not.

Anyway, the other Filipino villain in this thread hand did see the above AKs vs AJo action.

I should talk less, and I think I do better when I do so. I did give him a nitty range, which is narrower than what I'm trying to do from the SB. I agree, I should not discuss my ranges, unless I add in some ambiguity or some deception. In this instance, V said "no, you don't 3-bet with pocket tens, I don't think so." lol. But I do think I need to talk less.

And fold to a bet if A or K hits the turn?

I would in practice, yeah, but it's pretty EV neutral in theory.

FWIW, the solver raises dry QQ 80% (mostly for a jam), and it is the number one hand selection for raising.

I usually agree with the don't talk rule but I have an exception for Filipinos, its in their blood to chatter when they are super strong. At the same time they usually will give away that they are gambling pre as well with a big Ax because of their chatter. I do agree not to give them your range unless your going to straight up lie. Any information at the table can be valued to certain people so it isn't bad to give false information if you want to throw them off the scent.

Result:

I jammed on the flop.

V tanked for a couple minutes. I had loud music in my headphones on noise cancelation mode, and didn't hear if he said anything. He eventually folded.
Interestingly, he was pretty disgusted afterwards. He asked to be dealt out and sat out 2 full orbits, just looking at his phone quietly. Then he played 1 orbit and changed tables. His starting stack was about $1600-$1800, so I was a little surprised he was so upset with losing $415. Maybe he punted with a small pocket pair, or Axs?

It's a 4bet pot. I know you said he's loose, but this looks far more like you got him to fold AA-KK than it does a small pocket pair (unless JJ-TT which would make perfect sense) or random Ace.

you're a savage ^_^

Ha ha.
Someone posted above that the solver says jam the flop, right?
If so, I feel ok about shoving...

Could V really fold AA? I thought for sure he's calling with AA, and very likely with KK too.

He would really have to see me as a super nit to fold AA/KK, but he did earlier say he didn't think I would 3-bet TT out of the SB vs B open, so maybe...

What? No one’s folding KK-AA here lol

I actually think you are quite wrong his bet does suggest a mid pocket pair pre flop. And smashing the flop like this looks like a set low key. V could even have a hand like 10s, 6s, 8s here.

Maybe the villain had AK? Again though, I'm not sure why he was so upset after the hand.

Well played. And nobody is folding AA/KK.

yeah, I can't see someone who just triple barrel bluffed with 24s folding aces here for only a 4x raise.

he was probably upset that he bluffed with whatever trash he had pre.

What do you mean, if hero had red AQs here, everyone would tooooootally be saying this is an easy bluff jam…