LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
Everyone knows you are trolling. No one could be that dumb.
Oops u forgot my post about goat choke ? Let’s put it again .
U keep spewing many stats but yet you don’t seem to believe in stats …..
Has for the rest is just cherry picking stats that do not make sense without context .
Again, the odds from any one series mean nothing and are often wrong, so who cares about the odds in any one Finals like the 16' Finals... Odds are only useful if there's a big sample or trend, such as Lebron getting 6 straight preseason favorites and no one else in history getting more than 3 - that's a big trend that includes the entirety of NBA history... Lebron simply had more help...
And we know that he underperforms favored rosters because of another big trend - all his preseason favorites fell to underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), except the Allen miracle... It literally took a miracle for Lebron to not underperform favored talent by losing with the preseason favorite, or falling to underdog... Btw, he was preseason favorite for a 7th time in 2021 but lost a 2-1 lead to Booker in the 1st Round... Btw, getting a 7 seed with AD is a black mark like they did in 2021.
But anyway top 10 players are based on failure or accomplishments?
Did Shaq get swept 5 times with great teams and got an even bigger choke in 2004 ? Think about it 2 sec ….
Every top10 players had miserable fails at some point , they aren’t like mj …
.
But I posted things that Lebron did that were worst-ever - no one ever did worse.. The list is shown above.
.
Things Lebron did that are worse than anyone else ever did:
* worst-ever championship record (4-6 or 22-33)
* record losses in 2014, 2017, and 2018
* goat choke in 2011 Finals
* worst-ever futility and efficiency on game-winners in the Finals (0-7) - never scored on the last possession of a 1-possession Finals game
* the only 65+ win team in history to not reach at least Game 7 of conference finals was the 09' Cavs, who were one of the 10 biggest favorites to ever lose a playoff series (-700)
* worst-ever shooting and ball control, i.e. 35% and 6 TO's in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF - these were the first 2 chokes of his career because Kobe and Amare dominated the Spurs at the same age, while MJ and Magic dominated the Celtics at the same age as 08' Lebron.
* missed play-in with 3 top 75 teammates in 2022 (widely-regarded as the biggest underachievement of a roster ever)
* the most consistently high turnover player ever (the most top 5 finishes in turnovers)
* worst brand of ball ever that increases' teammates spot-up shooter and assisted rate, which lowers their assists and causes low-assist teams (low assist teams are the Achilles heel of Lebron's skillset because he had deficits in team assists for every series loss of his career)
I know this is more than obvious but this is the stuff that really makes you a clown and totally transparent. Bulk stats matter when you want them too, but not when you don't.
I've never seen anyone so partisan in my life outside of the political realm. It's honestly beyond religious fanaticism.
I don't doubt that you legitimately love Michael Jordan.
I could've said the most times being top 5 in turnovers
Either way, Lebron is one of the all-time turnover machines and the rest of the list stands (reposted above).
.
Things Lebron did that are worse than anyone else ever did:
[indent]* worst-ever championship record (4-6 or 22-33)
What about West? Also, and I know you aren't very clever, 0-0 in Finals is worse than 4-6.
* the only 65+ win team in history to not reach at least Game 7 of conference finals was the 09' Cavs
May want to fact check that one.
I'm not a troll and you saying that I am is a deflection from the truth that I'm writing itt.
It's statistical fact that Lebron's skillset increases everyone's assisted rate and spot-up role.
By turning everyone into spot-up shooter, Lebron prevents elite roster construction and chemistry, while the spot-up roles lower everyone's assists and create low assist teams.. This dynamic of spot-up roles and low assist teams is the Achilles heel of Lebron's skillset, since every series loss of his playoff career shows deficits in team assists (except the goat choke in the 11' Finals)..
Lebron's worst-ever chemistry means that he produced a long list of bad fits, woat title-frequency, and a lottery record on the championship level, while being incapable of winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player... Accordingly, he requires super-teams of multiple franchise players, but still mostly loses due to the bad chemistry (never a great team)... And of course his skillset has never produced the best basketball as 1st option (dynasty or dominant champion).
What about West? Also, and I know you aren't very clever, 0-0 in Finals is worse than 4-6.
I have West behind Lebron..
It's from Self-Researched NBA facts and he might've been referring to only Eastern teams.. Regardless , Lebron was one of the 10 biggest favorites to ever lose a playoff series when he lost to Dwight.. And he was horrific in the clutch during that series, while defending Lee instead of Hedo - that cost the series right there
Finals teams are much better, so their losses matter more than a low seed losing in the first round.
The reason the Cavs lost the 07' Finals was because Lebron wet the bed - the games were otherwise close... if I'm not mistaken, games 2 thru 4 were 1-possession affairs where the Cavs had the tie or lead in the 4th... Unfortunately, 22 on 36% with 6 TO's is the worst anyone ever played, which made victory impossible.
A top 10 player cannot arguably be outside of the top 10 in everything (scoring, passing, rebounding, defense).
None of my top 10 is like that.
It's literally all that matters... Who cares about winning 4 chips in 24 years?... that's BAD for a top 10 player, especially if they stacked the deck most of the time.
His skillset cannot win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player (fact)
This is because his skillset produces low assist teams (fact) and a long list of bad fits and chemistry (fact)... His
What stats bird is in top 10 ?
That’s fine but we are talking about top 10 , not goat .
A top 10 player cannot arguably be outside of the top 10 in everything (scoring, passing, rebounding, defense).
None of my top 10 is like that.
It's literally all that matters... Who cares about winning 4 chips in 24 years?... that's BAD for a top 10 player, especially if they stacked the deck most of the time.
His skillset cannot win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player (fact)
This is because his skillset produces low assist teams (fact) and a long list of bad fits and chemistry (fact)... His
First bolded part
Frequency would matter if some players had as much but they don’t ….
Only mj has more final mvp then lebron …..
Second bolded part
And yet you are the one that said lebron isn’t top 10 scorer of all time ?
Career :
lebron the leader !
Scorer per game :
Lebron rank 7 while bird ranks 22 and steph curry 19th ?
Again your own stats u decide to blame lebron on , do not stand for other top 10 …..
It’s incredibly how bias and blind you are ….
It’s ok to say lebron is a great player, doesn’t mean is the goat if u put him in top 10 …..
It’s ok , don’t worry , really it’s fine shrug.
Lebron isn’t my goat either .
Finals teams are much better, so their losses matter more than a low seed losing in the first round.
So, you think LeBron's career would have been better if he had of been 4-0 in the Finals and in the other 6 years he had performed poorly and led teams to 40-45 wins and lost in the first round?
Again, the odds from any one series mean nothing and are often wrong, so who cares about the odds in any one Finals like the 16' Finals... Odds are only useful if there's a big sample or trend, such as Lebron getting 6 straight preseason favorites and no one else in history getting more than 3 - that's a big trend that includes the entirety of NBA history... Lebron simply had more help...
And we know that he underperforms favored rosters because of another big trend - all his preseason favorites
That is fine but it was you claiming about the “goat choke” .
Dont try divert the discussion now .
Glad we get this out of the way and the “lebron choke” wasn’t the worst ever.
Backed by pre season odds,
pre final odds ,
and any other stats or narrative you want to use .
The point was …..you remember…….?
Yes other top 10 player did choke worst then lebron yet only lebron do not get a pass for it by you .
So again , you just brush off clear facts backed by stats that 2011 wasn’t the worst choke ever and keep repeating the same lies ?
Ok then it’s clear you don’t care about stats or facts, just deliberately blind yourself by hate for a players , hoping people will believe lebron isn’t top 10 by lied stats you keep repeating …
It’s all good .
It’s sad but all good .
And again, best players aren’t judge by what they miss but by what they accomplished and won ….
The day you will factual find me things that all your top 10 players did better then lebron , I will listen but u just can’t find any beside mj lol….
Finals teams are much better, so their losses matter more than a low seed losing in the first round.
The reason the Cavs lost the 07' Finals was because Lebron wet the bed - the games were otherwise close... if I'm not mistaken, games 2 thru 4 were 1-possession affairs where the Cavs had the tie or lead in the 4th... Unfortunately, 22 on 36% with 6 TO's is the worst anyone ever played, which made victory impossible.
If Duncan would lost that final to a an “outside top 10 player like LeBron” being backed by no AS with him, it would have been one of the great upset ever ….
Ps: who the **** is drew gooden or Daniel Gibson btw ?
Larry Hughes 2 games played 1 pts, 2 Rbn, 1 assist lol.
Yup much better than pippen ….
PPS: they got swept and only 2 game were close
I know this is more than obvious but this is the stuff that really makes you a clown and totally transparent. Bulk stats matter when you want them too, but not when you don't.
I've never seen anyone so partisan in my life outside of the political realm. It's honestly beyond religious fanaticism.
I don't doubt that you legitimately love Michael Jordan.
These posts never being responded to are the reason you would ban an account like this, btw. I know we’ve accepted we aren’t doing that, fine. But it’s just remarkably bad faith arguing.
That said, there are accounts like this on Twitter and YouTube that just spam LeBron hate all day long. Something about Jordan has genuinely warped people’s brains.
