Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I'd tip all 3 of those spots more than a bad dealer. The guy is f'n dealing cards. The tip is a buck. Me not tipping is clearly communicating something that dealer is aware of as I would have said something before not tipping. Those other scenarios are genuine services

I've been looking through this post a bit but haven't found anything on my situation. Sorry if this is a little long.

I was a dealer for almost 7 years. I played on the side on and off as a hobby. For the past year I've been playing PLO professionally with great success. In my local areas, the PLO is time rake. There is no promo drop. So per 30 min I pay $6 or $7 depending on where I'm playing. Then tip on pots won. Otherwise everything else is profit.

I've always understood how tipping can affect your win rate. So as a dealer, I didn't get annoyed like my coworkers would if I knew a player only tipped $1 or $2 at most. Would I root in my head for the whale that would toss me a green bird if he won? Hell yeah I would. But I understand how much it adds up when paying rake and tipping, 99% of players do not do the math or understand. I mean just looking at the rake I pay is ~$25,000 per year if I play full time (1920 hours). If I play ~48,000 hands per year (25 hands an hour) and win say 15% of them since I play more LAG compared to other pros. That's 7200 hands. $1 per hand is $7200. If I average $5 per hand that's $36,000. I'm not sure how many hands I've played, how much I average in tips, etc. but you get the point, it adds up.

When I was dealing and just playing on the side, I didn't care how much I tipped. Now that poker is my only income, and I started keeping track, I can see now how much it's starting to effect me. I'd say on average I tip $1 to $2 per hand (mostly $2) with tipping $5 to $15 on larger pots. Biggest tip I've ever given since going pro was $100 which was way more than I should have. It was the biggest pot of my life (12k) and I had a couple of people basically shaming me asking me how much I tipped him after I originally tipped $50.. which was already a lot (they might not have seen what I tipped). In the moment I was excited with my adrenaline pumping and just threw another $50 to hopefully not look cheap. There are times I want to just tip $1, but everybody is looking my way since I just won the pot, so I tip more because I don't want to look bad and I know they'd tip much more.

I get this feeling my old coworkers I was dealing with for years think I'm cheap, even though I tip way more than most pros probably do. The room is a small room and not many pros come through. They have the recs throw them $5 every other hand and here I am throwing $1 or $2. They probably think I'm stingy since that was my profession before playing professionally, and I should "understand" how it feels and should be tipping better than everybody else.. but in reality that's backwards.

I've already heard from a friend of mine that plays professionally online (so they don't know that he doesn't tip a lot playing live) that he's heard from players talking at his home game that I play in that I'm a bad tipper considering I used to deal (I tip very well at the home game). He apparently told them "but that's not what he does anymore". I don't know the extent of the conversation. He understands though because he used to play live. He even said when he was staked, his backer told him $1 per hand, $3 at most but that's only if it was an absolutely massive pot. If his backer found out he tipped more than that, he was cut off or it came out of his own profits.

My issues are the guilt that I want to start tipping less, while playing with all of the players I used to deal to that tipped me very generously, how they view me (being potentially shamed at the table and looked down on for not tipping much), and tipping my old coworkers. If I was in a whole different area where nobody knew me, I probably wouldn't really care. I really don't know how to navigate this. I feel like the answer is just "stop caring what people think, just do you" but it doesn't feel easy to do. I don't want to be disliked by everybody around me.

this is with dealers who know me by name and i'll often talk to a lot and end up knowing quite a bit about them and their personal lives etc

i'll perhaps give a redbird if the pot is over 2k but that's about it - remember you're putting a lot of the money into those pots so it's not all profit and you're losing quite a few along the way as well - it's just not sustainable, like staking someone without any makeup

if i have no relation with them it's 99% $1 and sometimes $2 if the pot was huge

it's just not sustainable otherwise and those who i know well i'll straight up tell them that if i tip beyond that it's not sustainable for me which they say they understand

i think you're being held to an artificially high standard though, i've always seen people who work in industries that depend on tips usually tip the best, i've seen bartenders order a $7 drink and pay with a $20 all the time and like i get it, but at the same time, bro, that's just stupid and you've crossed the line from tipping to charity

What do you say to players who try to shame you? Like "really? you won a X sized pot and only tipped $2?" These guys are people I dealt to for years. So although they are being rude if they say something like this, I'm sure they think I'm being rude in a way for not tipping much. I want to be on everyone's good side for many different reasons (home game invites, they might soft play against me, friendly environment, etc.), so I don't want to say something back that might come off badly.

i have never had anyone say anything to me

if i did then i'd just say "well that pot was about my chips to begin with" or play it off with "i'm stuck 2k this week" or something like that

i think you're in a very tough spot because of your history as a dealer though

As someone who used to make half his income in poker and then became a whale because I got a lucky career: f that. If people shame you, use it to tilt them. No offense and all due respect to you, because the game passed me by for the most part and you're making money, but don't be so weak or thin-skinned. It's not Kenny Rogers days, but there's still a modicum of toughness involved in live poker and you can do it. Tilting players substantially increases your edge so if you're getting flack, use it to your advantage. I threw a red bird at a player once and told him to buy a tampon. Be brave and let that work to your advantage. You're counting outs and ranging people and hopefully keeping your frequencies appropriate for the table, and they're making bad decisions because they want to "get you." It's great. They're not on your level and caring about what they think is like caring what the pigeons in the park think.

I'm sorry if this isn't exactly what you were looking for but please just stop caring about how much you tip. If I had a kid that's what I'd tell him. Don't let having been a dealer propagandize you. Do what you want. And tell more stories so I can live vicariously through you. :p

Speaking as a dealer who listens to plenty of other dealers in the break room, if you're going to play in a room where former coworkers are dealing to you and everyone knows you used to be a dealer...

If you're not one of the best tippers on the table, the dealers are going to talk badly about you, no matter how friendly you are and no matter how low maintenance you are. Especially if you play LAG and win lots of pots.

No judgment from me on this. Just telling you what your reputation is going to be.

Yeah for sure. Being a former dealer, I'd hear about it from coworkers all of the time. Even I complained at times, but it was more about an entire table being horrible for tips and not just 1 specific player. Unless there was a specific player just not tipping, or only tipping $1 and they make my life a living hell. But I'm also somebody who has studied the game and have played on the side for a while. Whenever I see any of my coworkers play somewhere, they are horrible players and way overtip. So I'm sure they expect the same from me.

Like one of them tips $5 for basically all pots, and $30+ on 1k+ pots. If he straddles, there's a limper, he raises and the limper folds, he just throws all of the chips to the dealer. Things like that.

I think either way, like you said, I'm screwed. Especially considering I play LAG and exploitative so I win more pots than other pros I know.