"They're not colluding, you're just bad" is a dangerous mindset to adopt.
Rarely; well...it should be rarely, you play a game and think 'this just doesn't feel right'. You then tell yourself. "Variance". Because what's more likely? Cheating -> Collusion -> Me being a bad player.
I'll take the third option for $1,000, Alex.
That said, there are bot/collusion rings online, and if you feel your being cheated; the correct move isn't to keep playing while denying it to yourself. Trust your gut; even if you're wrong, they're winning players versus you. Get out of the game.
Last night, I had a rough one. Join a lobby; and one guy is in chat bitching. I naturally move to target him. However; I also take note that specific players I'd marked previously as 'AVOID'...which means 'I don't want to write 'collusion/cheater' but I'm thinking it. 'AVOID' is better because it doesn't matter why he's winning versus you, and doesn't speculate.
I take note of this, but start playing any way. Pretty soon the people I've written AVOID on are doing the same thing they were doing last time I wrote avoid on their profiles. It's very subtle play, that makes you say 'wtf' at the end. You don't even need to be in the hand; you can watch them do it to others.
Regardless; because I know the mantra from 2+2 and every website about poker ever. I kept telling myself..."You just suck, they're better than you."
That was...until I left the table and saw the other tables. Of the approximately 7 tables; they sat together at 4 of them, with 3 being completely empty from any of them.
I've read some posts that people think it's employees superusing. I don't believe so; but I understand why they'd say that. It's the types of plays that occurring that go beyond suck outs. It's the line into the suckout too that cause them to think that way.
That said; even though this would be more easily accomplished with bots...I don't think it's bots.
I think they are sitting in discord or some group chat together. Two players are designated crushers. The third is the one running the calculations based on knowing hole cards of their friends. I don't think they're doing it every hand. I think they're using it in niche spots for better idea of their odds.
Regardless; I mean, what do I even do about that? To sit there and tell yourself - "no, no no, I'm just bad" then to see the exact same players sitting together is suspicious.
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Despite all of the above; I don't think the right answer is to bitch about them cheating. Cheaters going to cheat; and I won't name names because I'm not 100% sure.
I legitimately think the right answer is something along the lines of 'don't play'. No matter how you phrase 'don't play'...."Don't play on that website" - "Don't play online" - "Don't play with those people." the answer is simply don't play.
I've taken many bad beats, and only rarely do I get the feeling something is suspect. I mean twice on this platform...for the same exact people....over 2 months of play, and having played thousands upon thousands of hands/games. Seriously a "no life" player. I don't accuse others because my natural inclination is to assume they are better.
What's worse; I'm a losing player. Nobody will take me seriously even if I detailed every event and hand that I found suspect or provided hands, and they're right to think that. I agree with them. It's what I would think.
How the hell would a losing player like me even know? Valid point.
Do you know how many suckouts I see a day and say nothing? Do you know how often I see bubble 'friendships'? Not a single one do I bitch about; because bitching solves nothing.
All I ask is that you consider this post; it's entirely possible I'm a terrible player who also sat in a game of cheaters.
10 Replies
Response from support:
"We will always investigate any serious claims of cheating as we do not tolerate unfair play on Global Poker.
Furthermore, xxxx (removed big yikes had usernames) has been reported.
What will happen next?
We will review your report and your arguments, conduct a full review into your allegations and take appropriate action, if necessary.
What will happen to the reported user?
It depends, we aim to treat everyone fairly and our 'modus operandi' is presumption of innocence. That said, we are conscious that our customers are closest to the source of issues with our product and can notice problems before our systems flag them. Therefore we conduct thorough investigations into reported concerns and if we can prove that reported claims are true with internal data and information the range of actions we can take includes warnings, account or service access suspensions, or in some cases the participation might be voided.
How can you know that we have taken action against the reported user?
This is something that we cannot disclose to you due to the fact that we have an agreement with everyone, including yourself but also customers who breach our rules whilst playing, that we will not share information about them without their permission or in very specific cases when it is absolutely necessary to comply with law or legal processes. You can find more details about it here:
https://globalpoker.com/privacy-policy/
Important:
The number of reports on the same issue does not increase the chance of us taking action against other customers nor does it help the efficiency of our operations. Including specific details and/or visual evidence of wrongdoing may help us to resolve issues more efficiently.
Thank you for helping us improve Global Poker community and customer experience.
Regards,
David
Global Poker Game and Platform Integrity"
Notice this section: if we can prove that reported claims are true with internal data and information the range of actions we can take includes warnings, account or service access suspensions, or in some cases the participation might be voided.
You'll note that it doesn't say 'participation might be voided and players refunded.'.
This leads me to the belief that even if they find wrong doing for any other players who may be affected by colluding; they do not plan to refund the losses; but rather to ban the people responsible and pocket the money.
Amazing how one night you can't see yourself leaving a website, and the next knowing you'll never deposit there again. Congratz; where do I collect my fish trophy and participation ribbon?
Edit: Of note; one of the players i reported doesn't have a sharkscope. It says player not found. could simply mean he only plays cash games or JSNGs. Sharkscope doesn't track those. It could also mean he's already banned. (No, I was not refunded any money).
There is no way to currently substantiate your claims. Most seem to stem from feelings rather than evidence, and lack specifics. While your apprehension regarding usernames is understandable, disclosing them would be a productive initial step. Additionally, you haven't provided details about the players' actions, the stakes involved, or the specific games in question. You acknowledge the difficulty in being taken seriously due to your results; however, this could be attributed to the lack of concrete evidence supporting your claims.
My interest stems from having similar thoughts, while I am a winning player and haven't observed collusion impacting my ROI I never investigated my suspicions any further. Nevertheless, curiosity persists. It's important to note that the player with the sharkscope in question could be taking significant losses, is absolutely crushing, or blatantly cheating. In most cases, the simplest explanation is usually the answer, but without further information, it's impossible to say for certain. Would like to hear more about specific lines in hands that went to showdown and why you are apprehensive in disclosing more information.
There is no way to currently substantiate your claims. Most seem to stem from feelings rather than evidence, and lack specifics. While your apprehension regarding usernames is understandable, disclosing them would be a productive initial step. Additionally, you haven't provided details about the players' actions, the stakes involved, or the specific games in question. You acknowledge the difficulty in being taken seriously due to your results; however, this could be attributed to the lack of con
No; I can not disclose names; that's doxing. I'm really uncertain around rules; and if I am wrong; that's a huge claim to make public.
It's also against TOS of the website TMK. It's just really rude without substantial proof in hand data. I've seen what the pro analysts present; I have nothing close to that level of analysis.
I don't recall the exact lines; Mostly it was the time banking on what I believe was the 'stooge'. It's hard to explain without seeing it; but the stooge doesn't win. The stooge does the math; the other two reap the benefits of knowing when it's better to fold/call/etc. Then; you watch how they play each other versus how they play people you don't believe are in the group. It's night and day difference; but a lot of the time you can't possibly know *why* they are playing differently without substantial hand data.
IDK though; I'm convinced they were colluding; but I also had a guy try to stab me; I identified him in a photo mug shot; but then told the police "I can't sign off on this, because I'm only 95% sure that's the guy, and that would mean 5 innocent people get improperly identified out of 100" (I think about protecting the innocent over prosecuting the guilty - so most I will say is 'avoid players that you think are cheating, and it doesn't matter if they are or not')
I don't think that providing the screen names of a few suspected cheaters rises to the level of 'doxing'. To merit usage of that term, I think some aspect of their real-life identity would have to be revealed. You've also gone to great pains to give these people the benefit of the doubt. I admire your epistemic humility, but I also think it must be pretty psychologically painful to remain that indecisive about a topic of some concern to you.
Good luck however you choose to handle your situation going forward (it sounds like quitting Global may be your preferred option?).
Good luck however you choose to handle your situation going forward (it sounds like quitting Global may be your preferred option?).
So here's the issue as I see; I'm like 99% sure I'm right; and here is why....
I stopped playing the cash games and started playing tournaments only. The following is my sharkscope the 'profit' is entirely from focusing tournaments. The arrow shows when I stopped playing SNG/cash games.
I just won another 1st place; admittedly after a two day down streak.
So one of two things is true, because by looking at this; you must accept that I can enter an MTT and place first.
The cash games have 6-9 players. The SNGs have 6-9 players. The MTTs have hundreds of players (sometimes only 100 or so).
I am a losing player in cash games and SNGs. I am a winning player in tournaments.
What is harder to collude in?
One time; I watched the chips get sent from player to player to help with blinds in an SNG. I wrote in chat "Hmm, those chips are moving weird; going to have to review HH"
The one I suspected immediately wrote in chat; and acted clueless, and then - never the less - it all stopped and they played normally. The chip dumping stopped immediately.
Global does have an issue; the problem is they are in an even harder boat to be in than I'm in. I can see it; i can call it out; but it's so hard to be sure that it makes their job a nightmare.
Cash games are just a lot more difficult in general (not that there isn't collusion sometimes)
Online I'm up a pretty significant amount in tourneys but down significantly in cash.
Cash games are just a lot more difficult in general (not that there isn't collusion sometimes)
Online I'm up a pretty significant amount in tourneys but down significantly in cash.
I see what you're saying; but i've not done a great job explaining the small details of what I've seen that clue me in and at this point I couldn't remember all the details anyway.
My solution remains; Avoid any format you don't trust; and it doesn't matter if you're right. Either way I lost to them; right? So it doesn't matter; gotta avoid those games.
All the top players say the same thing, and this is just an extension of that. 'find the game you can win' extending to 'avoid the games you lose'.
Yeah, this isn't accurate. But it might be true it's a bit easier to get whacked yolo'ing cash games because people are surgical with their 100bb. Tournaments I assume a lot of spots, people are winging it. So reg winging it vs rec winging it is a bit more fair then Reg Knows This Spot Perfectly vs Fish winging it. I don't play tourneys tho
