Running it once vs recreationals

Depends upon the predator/prey ratio in the game and the willingness of the prey to rebuy. 8 predators/1 prey you are 1/8 to stack him and the money goes to someone you can not easily take it from; 1 predator/8 prey does not matter. If once stacked at any point will rebuy your play has nothing to do with whether the fish stays at the table.

i always try and keep it friendly vs recs so i'm more willing to run it twice. the ev is the same and it incentivises them to stay in the game so in actuality the long term ev of keeping the fish in the game is higher running it twice. plus it lowers variance

Rules for this situation:

1. Keep the fish happy
2. Ignore the blathering of losing regs
3. See Rule #1

I always RIT to keep the game friendly.

Running it once versus twice does not change the EV. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is a moron and deserves what they get.

Running it once versus twice does reduce variance (though not as much as people assume).

I think most of the people trying to to convince you to run it once or twice are either messing with you, or have a poor understanding of variance and telling you nonsense.

For me personally, it does not matter. In the long run, nothing changes. So I do whatever the weaker players at the table want in order to keep them happy. Having happy whales at the table is far more important than any voodoo nonsense.

I am fully aware that the EV of the hand is the same no matter how many times you see a runout. The question is if RIT vs fish puts makes the game lower EV later? Like I said, it does not make sense to me, but one player who recently said this is Sifiasco (pkrELMO) on his youtube channel. And he is not the only strong player who never runs it twice vs fish, just the most recent I´ve heard.

I agree that it is probably higher EV in the long run to do whatever keeps the fish happy! I´m just curious about this statement that "you want to be the one who stacks the fish", implying a kind of urgency.

correct but there is some future ev,assuming fish always buys is 50bb deep cause he blinded down or lost chips but always (re)buys in 100bb you want to run it once especially sitting left to him cause your future edge is higher when he has 100bb(and he either doubles to 100 or rebuys to 100), several of these scenarios exist but I tend to agree its overestimated vastly how much it matters really

Whether all that is true or not does not matter.

One of the biggest lessons that good players need to recognize is that fish (whales) are much more likely to "gamble" (i.e overcall whatever odds they are getting versus their EV) with players who they like, or who have demonstrated a willingness to gamble with them.

I have literally seen fish fold flush draws they were getting nowhere near the correct odds to call simply because the other player was known not to run it twice. Normally they would call, but the other player was a dick and regularly only ran it once so they folded.

Whatever theoretical advantage they would have gained by seating position was more than overwhelmed by the simple play of having a bad player correctly fold because they couldn't run it twice.

The biggest lesson in all of poker is making the fish happy. Period. End of sentance. There are all sorts of theoretical discussions we can have about small minor edges, but they pale to the simple strategy of making fish happy and willing to gamble when they got it bad.

You are missing the forest for the trees.

I can understand this question. Especially since it seems lately I have played at tables with fish who have gotten lucky against me and then given it away to others before I could get it back.

I do get that. I really do. One of the most frustrating things in the world.

That said, it needs to be balanced against the fact that the EV doesn't change and that fish are more likely to gamble with people they like than not.

For example, you only run it once thinking you will stack the fish, but he hits his miracle and wins (remember the EV doesn't change, just the variance). The fish then proceeds to lose it all a few hands later to someone else. You didn't gain anything by running it once. In fact, you probably lost half of his stack because you refused.

EV is EV.

We often lose sight of the whole goal of winning poker is to get money in good against worse hands (or technically get it in getting more than proper odds). Running it once or twice does not change the EV. Just the short term variance.

Focus on making worse players getting it in with worse odds than you are giving them. That is the whole point.

It does take longer to run it twice, which should lower your EV.

Big bet poker is already so slow; I'm glad the games I play don't allow running it twice.

I would think that a good player who wins some pots with bluffs should be able to get more of them through if he is not willing to run it twice.
Getting a better hand to fold is worth a lot more than getting a worse hand to call with less than proper odds.