***Official H&F LC Thread***

U mad bro? Crazy that the word "undocumented" can rustle the jimmies so much. Not lying about using it, obviously. I'm acknowledging it repeatedly. I'm using "undocumented" to refer to "undocumented" people. See, there it is again!

I don't understand why this is so upsetting. Call them whatever you want. As I said, it has nothing to do with my point.

You keep going on about Biden and Harris not having a plan for school safety. Yeah, his term is almost over. The issue is that he didn't do anything or even try, but he instead politicized it. LOL at his "plan" being to ban some guns. Is it a coincidence that doing so would require Democrat control of the House, the Senate, and the White House?

Again, it's politicized nonsense. Find a case where a politician was shot and the only proposal to address it was a gun ban.

Except you aren't. You are using newspeak to hide the fact these are illegal immigrants.

You wanna paint yourself as the educated party in this whatever-the-****-it-is. But you are actually just a parrot for disinformation and dishonesty.

As you said, some have documentation, so please stop lying.

I wonder if the people who push these stupid terms on everyone call burglars "undocumented guests," refer to store thefts as "undocumented purchases," etc.

It is annoying how they use euphemisms for everything. If they were really confident in their positions, they'd describe it all in plain English.
- Abortion, not "health care"
- Sex change, not "gender affirming care"
- Illegal alien, not "immigrant," "undocumented," etc.
- Gun ban, not "gun safety"

No they aren't. They're illegal aliens. They aren't documented because they chose to break the law and not get themselves documented through the legal immigration process. But, libs will be happy, because we'll document them all when we deport them back to their countries of origin.

I don't agree with all of this. But the US has a vastly larger problem (~15x) than the EU on illegal immigration which is an ongoing subject of discussion here.

National ID for anything meaningful would solve this. So would basic sane policies like summary refusal for non-port of entry asylum applications.

Also keep splitting them families, lest you are a kiddie diddler who wants to support child sex trafficking.

Looks like we agree!

I also agree that they are indeed illegal aliens.

You can use the words you want. I'll use the ones I prefer.

LOL, you too with the reading? I'm not hiding it. They entered here illegally. I'm not disputing that. I never said otherwise.

How can I be lying if I'm the one who said it!

Trump want to deport lots of undocumented immigrants. There are probably people who are here legally with documents who he also wants to deport (e.g. applied for asylum at a port of entry and awaiting a hearing). Again this whole thing is in the context of a discussion with Rich Muny (which you said you didn't read) where even he is talking about undocumented people. He just posted it again, so you don't even have to read a previous text wall:

Also, again, this has nothing to do with the original point, so feel free to call them what you like.

Both of those terms are factually incorrect, but you would have to have a strong grasp of the English language to understand that. In the case of undocumented immigrants, even you agree that they are indeed "undocumented'. Just read your own post above,

You do realize that sometimes more than one word can be used to describe an idea, right? This can't possibly be a foreign concept to you, can it? Of course, heading for the fainting couch because of word choice is an outstanding way to avoid actually discussing an issue. Let's not discuss whether abortion access is important, let's discuss what term we should use to refer to the issue instead! That is what is really important.

Some people are ****ing idiots and some people are Melkerson.

Best of luck with this. You're openly dishonest and full of ****.

This is cool and all, but you're missing the points. Here they are again.

1. Just because they don't have "school security plan", it doesn't mean they don't care (this is what you argued earlier). It may, in your opinion, mean that they are misguided. That's different.

2. The problem is not they don't have a plan. It's that you don't like what they want to do: Gun control. We know this because Trump almost never has a plan for anything. Yet you never criticize him for that. You don't actually care about specific plans. You care about policy goals. If people cared about plans, Trump would never make it out of a primary.

It's weird that you use euphemisms.

Melk: Burglars are really "uninvited guests"
Rich: Yeah, they are uninvited because they never sought an invitation, breaking in instead
Melk: See...told you they were uninvited!!!!!!

I'm more concerned with starting off with convicted criminals and those who already have orders for deportation.

Families should be deported together or, preferably, should self-deport.

If we keep this system of allowing people who make past the border to stay, we'll never really have border security. We also can't expand legal immigration without getting control of the border and of illegal immigration.

See, you're no good at this:

No. No. No. No.

I never said that. In fact I specifically said that "burglars are 'uninvited guests'" was factually incorrect.

You could scroll up, but I'll make it easier and quote the relevant part:

It's true that you could come up with a better alternative term for burglar. And if you did, then I would agree with it. But they are most definitely not "uninvited guests". This is in contrast to "undocumented immigrants" who are most definitely "undocumented". Even you said so and you even explained why.

Dumb take. They were never documented because they illegally evaded the documentation process.

It's not a "take". It's a fact. You even seem to understand it:

Yes, that is true*!

*"Never" isn't quite right. There are exceptions like visa overstays, who were documented, but no longer are. But yes, many were never documented at all because they entered the country illegally.

Melk,

You've already taken the L via openly admitting the usage of propaganda terms.

Maybe be less of a ****ing ******?

LOL. One person's "propaganda" is another person's preferred term. People have different perspectives on things! All that matters is accuracy.

I'm sure you've heard the saying, one person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter". It all depends on what team you're on. This should be obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot.

Moreover the point I was discussing has nothing to do with immigration policy at all. I know, you didn't read the text walls. So the "propaganda" terms have zero to do with the point. But talking about those is a great way to avoid it!

Melk,

The difference in "framing" that has you moving this far on the euphemism treadmill is kind of the point; this is legitimately depressing, and part of the reason that the party with which I would have grudgingly associated myself in years past is a complete embarrassment now. This is beside the fact that your supposition that Harris has actual principles is belied by the fact that her entire platform has changed from five years ago for reasons (question mark [emoji780]). I'll hang up and look forward to your 750 word reply.

Sorry you feel that way. But LOL at "undocumented" being on the "far end" of the euphemism treadmill. It is also accurate, which apparently is the most rustling thing of all for Muny, Thremp, and I guess you.

You too, Monte? I don't know where the **** you guys are coming up with this supposed Harris love. I did not think much of her and thought she was a terrible candidate. I'm sure I said that at least a couple of times. Yes, the position changing had a lot to do with it (of course Trump has flip-flopped a lot, but no one GAF). I also think she would have been a better President than Trump. But I think Rich Muny would have, so it's not saying much.

Also, please don't tell me you're supposing Trump has "actual principles"*. That would actually make me sad.

*Obviously I don't mean this literally, I mean it how you meant it. I'm sure we can find a few things Trump and Harris have been consistent on throughout, but either say just about anything to get elected.

I think I might have come in under 750.

I admire the persistence on both sides in this debate. It's gone on far longer than I imagined

Melk's only chance of victory here is to never give up and I have faith that he will not be the first one to blink. Rich's commitment to the fray has been admirable

**** thots on god. I hope we get people into the attics and basements looking for folks like you.

You are the problem and should be removed.

tds helluva drug

test and gh

Dude, no one said the "undocumented" euphemism has no source. We said it's inauthentic, dumb, and comes across as an attempt not to discuss facts.