***Official H&F LC Thread***

You're the one who fails at critical thinking. You think people being familiar with Kamala'a talking points means they are more informed in general, as opposed to merely being more informed about those four specific points. Then again, you all think biological men should be in women's sports and spaces, Project 2025 is Trump's plan, Joe Biden was cognitively strong and that videos to the contrary were cheap fakes, and on and on.

Yeah, being informed on facts related to important issues in the election was kind of important. What does more "informed in general" even mean? You got some sources that people who tend to vote Trump are more informed on anything? Oh yeah, that's right, you don't do sources. That's research paper level work for our "dealer in facts".

Never said any of this. But you love making up stuff that we both know I never said to argue against. I suppose this is what you think "critical thinking skills" actually are. It's certainly easier than arguing against what I actually say, because you're clearly incapable. But keep at it!

Man it's wild how much training has been training and evolving in the hypertrophy world. 2nd place Mr. Olympia Classic (arguably better than cbum) and he trains upper/lower. Terrence Ruffin is also doing upper lower 4x/wk. Seems like "go back to beginner style training" is the new thing not just in Oly with Olivia Reeves. Less is moar, boyos.

I've been thinking about upper low 3x/wk a bit (probably just 2 upper 1 lower) but what I'm doing now is working really well already.

Dumb point, Melk. You posted a survey of four questions. You can't extrapolate beyond those four questions.

I didn't claim to have data on Trump voters. I have no idea if anyone collected any or not. I was claiming that your data doesn't prove anything close to what you think it does, and I already explained why. If that's too complex for you, that's too bad.

I didn't say you personally do or do not. I said a lot of Kamala voters do.

Melk,

Beyond your insistence that this survey data represents "objective facts" about which Democrats are more informed specifically, and that they are smarter in general (based on proxies like completing higher education, which I think you'd agree involves a population at least marginally selected for something other than raw intelligence), what exactly is the purpose (other than Melking) of getting Rich to "admit" this? Just personal satisfaction?

Can someone DM me when consider poor ghetto ass black kids over things like "school shootings" or "illegal immigrants" (most kids are not criminals, but most adult illegals are)?

Maybe we can even talk about how gun laws are actually most useful for BLM causes and keeping ghetto ass gangbangers alive (who are responsible for the vast majority of mass shootings among children).

K.

This is definitely in line with our prior autism about where is the optimal point on the "can do more on roids".

I can definitely say without a shadow of a doubt, I have no ****ing clue where the line is. But I'm always interested in the science on this expanding. I'm old enough to have read t-nation and how anyone on roids was a on a 6 day a week 2/hr session type program. But maybe you can just juice and spend slightly more time than a 20yr old natty with gifted genetics and get there (more maybe less, we don't really ****ing know!)

Melk just doesn't see it. He's so fixated on this survey that he can't look at it critically. As you note, all four questions were Kamala talking points, so her voters were far more likely to have heard them. Also, it was true/false. That also biased the results toward Kamala voters, as they didn't have to be informed on any facts at all. They just had to have an opinion about them when asked, and Kamala voters would obviously answer that things are great under Biden-Harris. That's simple confirmation bias.

The funniest part is his insistance that correctly answering one of these four true/false questions translates into being more informed overall.

https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2024-11-25-did-democrats-run-too-far-left/

The American Prospect

Did Democrats Run Too Far to the Left?

wow this is so problematic, sweetie. I am going to put down my avocado toast to educate you, okay sweetie?

BLM is an entirely peaceful movement and black people are far less violent than white people (I have interacted with exactly one black person in the last month, an obese HR lady with a business degree she barely earned passing grades for and was definitely not a DEI hire). The main mass shooters are WHITE REPUBLICAN INCEL MISOGYNISTS OKAY? They don't get women because of their bad personalities and misogynistic beliefs. Everyone knows that compliance with liberal shibboleths and feminist ideology is the only determinant of a man's reproductive success and attractiveness; these guys are just psychotic to believe that the reason they don't get laid is because of physical features or a lack of money and status to compensate for a lack of physical attractiveness. And it's this same psychotic delusion along with massive unchecked privilege as WHITE MALES that causes them to be performing mass shootings at such an alarming scale. I have literally NEVER heard of a black person engaging in a shooting of any form; I think you might need to check your white supremacy and stop reading fake news. Get on Bluesky and get off X!

All we need to do to solve the problem of rampant mass shootings on the part of white right wing extremists is to literally confiscate all guns (perhaps with financial compensation) and more feminist education at all levels of school and workplaces. And more therapy and psych meds. These are extremely effective and should be normalized for a large % of the population。We should put these as interests in our online dating profiles. Totally normal.

1. Based on that survey, you can say they are less informed about those four things. You don't even seem to understand that.

2. It's not like there isn't other data. Here's another survey asks people about where they get their news. You can see all the data in the link below, but focus on people who "don't follow political news". I think we can all agree that these are less informed people. After all, they are telling us they don't follow poiltical news. Who do you think they tend to vote for? I'll give you one guess:

Source: : https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-el...

I know that you didn't claim to have data. You have data about almost nothing. But in this case it doesn't really exist. Nearly all the evidence out there points one way. Sorry for the bad news. It sounds like you're going with "Well sure that data may suggest Trump are dumber, but it doesn't prove it to my rigorous standard." That's denial. You can make that statement about any claim just about anything.

Come on, man the posts are right here for everyone to read. Shall we have a look?

Words are hard! Here's a pro tip, if you mean to exclude the guy you are responding to you can't use "You all". Hope that helps.

1. Regarding bolded, I posted a link to a study that took that into account when correlating education with intelligence. It also references other similar work. Obviously, people who study these things are aware of that, as am I. I can't blame you for not bothering to read the text walls, but it's in there.

2. To answer your question, we both know Rich is never going to admit it. Real talk. Everyone knows dumber people tend to vote Trump. It's like the sky being blue. Deep down even Rich knows this. He admitted as much. Earlier he said something like, "It's bad strategy for the Harris campaign to call Trumpy voters dumb, It doesn't bother me because I know I'm smarter ...". And that makes sense. If you think you're smarter, that kind of insult does nothing. So why is it bad strategy? Because it bothers people who really are dumber! And then they get mad and spite vote against the people who look down on them. But his whole theory (which he repeats like million times, despite my not disputing it), rests on the fact the insult kind of hits because it's true. If it weren't true, the people would blow it off, like Rich Muny claims to do himself.

Furthermore, we know that the Trump and Trumpy people call people on the left dumb all the time on social media and other venues. I can find you tons of examples of "blah blah dumb libs..." , but I'm sure you know this. Why does no one say "well calling liberals dumb will cause them to spite vote against Trump"? It's because the insult doesn't hit the mark. They pretty much all blow it off, the exact way Rich Muny does.

So, not only does everyone know this, but Rich knows it too. I guess I just find cognitive dissonance such as this to be fascinating, and therefore I tend to probe it. That is a component of Melking, so I guess the short answer is Melking.

The insult is bad Strat directed at Trump voters because some of them are dumb and the dumb ones take offence, but it doesn’t hit the mark with some Libs because…

no Libs are dumb?
Or no Libs think they’re dumb?

bro libs are all 140iq+ geniuses. That's why they can abstract that men are women and women are men and men and women are exactly equal except when women are better. I feel sorry for those of you who aren't gigabrains and have to vote for trump because you're just not erudite enough to understand the brilliance of Kamala bro

I disproved even that limited claim. Go back and reread.

The article didn't link to the poll raw data. For all we know, <3% of all respondents said they don't follow political news. We don't know, and it's not like NBC News doesn't have clear political biases.

"You all" doesn't men you singular.

[QUOTE=]Everyone knows dumber people tend to vote Trump. It's like the sky being blue. Deep down even Rich knows this. [/QUOTE]

I made no claims. I said you failed to prove your case. I also said that, even if it were true, it would be people voting their interests, not people being too dumb to see how wonderful Kamala is. You said you don't care why they voted how they voted, which makes your argument even weirder.

Speaking of being smart, the elitist attitude of Kamala voters harmed her with working class voters. So, feel free to keep it up.

True. They see some snooty intellectual types talking down to them and they resent it. There are also plenty of working class folks who aren't all that dumb who work hard for a living. They greatly resent that treatment as they already think people look down on them. Lots of luck getting their votes.

And, there are people like me. College graduates in STEM fields with lengthy, successful professional careers who get called uneducated on social media by purple-haired nonbinary college sophomores majoring in gender studies. We just roll our eyes and wonder what's going on with the Democrat Party.

Acting elitist -- especially as its wholly unearned -- may be good for the true believers who can all pat themselves on their backs for being so smart and superior, but talking down to voters isn't a way to win elections.

I'm not seen this. People say leftist ideas are dumb, like thinking men are women, but "you're dumb, lib" with no context? That's rare in my experience. I see "Trump loves the poorly educated" and other such insults posted to conservatives all the time.

Melk vs Muny summarized.

It's probably a combo of "I'm not dumb" plus "there is no way that I'm as dumb as those guys", which is sometimes false.

While that is not what I think, that is not incompatibly with my position.

Congratulations! You have finally gotten it correct.

LOL. You've really raised the bar on ridiculousness.

Rich Muny: You see,when liberals call conservatives dumb its a baseless personal attack. But when noble conservatives call liberals dumb it is based on a well-reasoned thought process after carefully considering their arguments.

Come on man. You're calling me dumb, I'm calling dumb. This is what happens in the process of internet shietposting everywhere.

I assume from the quotation marks you realize that is a quote from Orange Man himself.

If I had an IQ off vs Trump or Kamala voters, I am trying to think what the optimal bankroll Kelly bet would be??

I am not sure, but it certainly is much higher vs the average Trump voter.

Now this doesn't mean I think all Trump supporters are dumb. Obviously plenty of them will beat me, just saying give me the average Trump supporter all day.

Kamala ain't that smart, failed the bar her first time. But no facking way Trump can ever pass the bar, he is dumb as shiet. All in, IQ off vs The Donald.

Anyways I didn't vote Trump, I couldn't. Too facking dumb, dictator like, and unscrupulous. Elon and Bill Ackman would say that i was brain washed by the media. No man, i have seen most of the speeches (they are batshiet crazy). All the insiders in his past adminstration loling at him. WTF, its like i am watching a comedy film, this cant be real life.

I have zero qualms with you guys voting Trump, I understand. Kamala is a donk also, 8 million immigrant encounters while she was exploring the root causes of immigration. Yo Kamala, 1 billion people would move to USA if they could. Once they start flying to Ecuador to cross the crazy Darien Gap, its time to do something.

Anyways, rooting for MAGA now. Not too much but just enough so they don't blow this shiet up. It's okay to concede power back and forth, just don't give me Venezuela or Russia.

No you didn't. You don't know what "prove" means. You don't even know what "you" means. More on that below.

You keep claiming that these are Kamala talking points as if that's proof. First of all that's not proof. Moreover, Orange Man is the one constantly talking about the stock market and going on about crime being "at levels we've never seen before" or some similar nonsense, which isn't even true according to the data you posted yourself. Thee are TRUMP talking points!

This poll was conducted by a professional, multi-million dollar market research company. They don't really have any incentive to push "Kamala talking points" or whatever you want to call it. But you seem to have built up this conspiracy in your head that Kamala and her buddies made a poll and just took advantage of some unsuspecting Trump voters.

Yes, it's only questions on only four issues. But on those four things the less informed ones tended to vote Trump.

You can't even follow a facking link now? The raw data is linked in the article. 15% responded that they "don't follow political news closely". GJGE.

Obviously. But "you all" includes the person you are talking to (that would be me) AND other people. It does not mean just other people and not you personally. I truly cannot believe we're at the point where I need to explain basic English words to you.

Next time go with a "Sorry, I didn't mean to include you, I should have worded that more carefully". I know internet posting is serious business, but it's not that big a deal.

I said that you would never admit it, so I'm well aware that you made no such claims. And I know you never would (as I have said). As we've covered, and you finally seem to understand, whether they voted in their interests is irrelevant. I also never said they voted for Trump because they were dumber (You even seem to understand this now. Well done!).

So what we're left with is "you failed to prove your case". That's all you have left. Sure, you can always claim that. Let's see what what we've got

-A poll with some facts. People who didn't know those facts tended to vote Trump (yes I know you have problems with this, and I take issue with those problems).
-It sounds like even you agree that people who are less educated, tend to vote Trump
-People who are less educated tend to be less intelligent (I posted a link to a study from a peer-reviewed journal that shows this, but you don't seem convinced...something about liberal arts degrees)
-I recently posted some data showing that voters who said they didn't really follow the news tended to vote Trump.

What do we not have? Data to the contrary. I know you didn't claim have any. You'll be happy to know that I've looked a bit. I haven't found any either. Nothing from Fox News or Newsmax or OAN or whatever.

So, sure, I could find you more data like in the list above, and I'm sure you would just dismiss that as well. Doesn't matter what the evidence is. Your mind is clearly made up. But a reasonable person would have to admit that all of the above in the aggregate would make the proposition that "dumber/less intelligent/less informed voters tend to vote Trump" more likely to be true than not true. All the data (imperfect though it may be) is only pointing one way, but if there is one thing Rich Muny is sure of, it's that it can't be true.

I'm claiming the Greek statue with HEART for our side. Yugo and Soulman are going to be pleased AF when they find out.

I absolutely did. Your refusal to admit it isn't surprising.

They are Trump talking points of how things were while he was president, not of how things are during Biden's time in office. Wow, you can't even be serious with this one.

Haha. With PPA, we worked with plenty of polling companies. It's all about what questions are asked. I already showed how the questions aligned with Kamala's talking points.

I already showed you where some of the biases there lie. Too bad you lack critical thinking skills. That's why you believe everything you read.

15%? Haha. That's pretty trivial.

Dumb reply. "You all" means a group where a majority believes something. Kamala voters generally believe what I post. I saw it on social media constantly and heard it on MSNBC whenever I suffered through a bit of watching the propaganda network.

No, you didn't show Trump voters are less informed. Not at all. Nor did you show Kamala voters are smarter. You tried to tie some weakly correlated factoids together, but it doesn't prove anything.

Even if you were able to prove it, all it would show is that Democrats have run off the working class that used to be a main part of their coalition. That cost you all the so-called blue wall. If that's a bragging point for you, I hope you all (note: since this term confuses you, I don't mean you specifically) succeed in running off more working class people going forward.

The hypothesis that Kamala voters are smarter and/or more informed than Trump voters has not been proven. But, other group differences have been, like

https://www.statista.com/chart/33408/female-male-us-voters-exit-polls/

Statista Daily Data

Infographic: The Trump-Harris Gender Gap