Vegas Trip Report, 3/16-4/6, Essentials

Thanks for the update. Which Korean BBQ?

The usual suspects, 888 and chubby cattle.
Both great, chubby a little more expensive, therefore even better meat options and quality

Yea I’ve never understood why Aria advertise the game that way.

Any reason why they don’t just make it 5/5/10/20 or 10/10/20 ?

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you get different reasons when you ask them, from a conversation with a friendly floor i know this:
- they don't wanna scare people off (who don't know); strange reason imo, bc once i sit down i know, and can still leave if i don't like it, might even be pissed (bc i was mislead)
- if they advertise it correctly (as 5-5/10-20), which is actually bigger than just 10-20, they'd have to uncap the max buy-in (2K now), and they don't wanna do that, bc in their eyes it's protecting the game this way (people can't loose so fast)
- there's a big lobby behind this from some of their local regs, who take max advantage of this system (always going north, very easy when you table change, slide in 1-2 yellow chips), this way they always cover and have a good chance of taking out the random whale who got lucky and has a stack

This report really clarifies to me why I subconsciously never felt comfortable playing cash games at the Aria. Sounds like a lot of favoritism from the floor, lax rules enforcement, and tolerance for very antisocial behavior.

Casinos who run any kind of 'private game' should be penalized IMO. Sadly no one cares, and the floormen who allows the games to run are likely being paid huge amounts for it.

(but that's neither here nor there, and probably not too relevant for this thread)

Not a big surprise. When they first opened, no doubt they were trained by the Bellagio crew. About as gangster as it gets in the modern era, wrt casino operations.

absolutely understandable.
seen (myself) and heard (from others) a lot of shady things there.

unfortunately they also have the monopoly on PLO outside of WSOP, with the occasional game going at wynn only sometimes. so if you play only plo like me, it's the place to be

now don't get me wrong, there are some very correct and nice people there too, but as usual the "bad apples" often set the tone ...

I've had only friendly interactions with the Aria brush, and I've played there a lot over the years, but only a few times in the bigger games (5/5/ Rock PLO and 5/T NLHE) -- I usually stick to the 1/2/5 PLO.

I think people who are intimidated by other players over things like straddling should change tables/games. If you don't want to straddle, don't. I've got a pretty thick skin, though.

Java, it's not about being intimidated ... it's about how people who clearly don't know are being treated.

I often play early mornings (since i always wake up early, and like to play in the morning when it's not busy and relatively quiet in the room). You often find overnight games, some people with huge stacks and some who are stuck a lot, wanting to get their money back ... dynamics that often make for a great game.

In one of those sessions a gentleman (clearly recreational player) comes in, who didn't even know what the rock was, let alone the straddle after the rock. After it was explained to him and he understood, he said he was ok with the rock (of course he had too, it's part of the game), but he didn't want to put the 20 straddle in.
The way he was bullied and harassed then was out of this world (i'll not repeat the language here), up to the point where i also rejected the straddle just to make it stop, taking his side. And this (in one form or another) didn't only happen once ...

I get it -- those regs suck a lot of the time. I just can't imagine entering that big of a game and being intimidated by anything, but that's me. They are probably easier on me, too, because I'm a woman -- although I'm more of a man than most of them when it comes to swearing, joking, drinking, etc. 😉

You'd think they'd want fresh blood -- pretty stupid on their end to scare someone off who's willing to sit in that game. Good for you for standing up to them -- I would have done the same.

I can definitely see it in a smaller game when a newb sits down -- they should never be in a position to feel intimidated.

yeah this is no bueno. As a rec who has also been a reg, it's definitely annoying when someone sits down at 2/5-10 or 5/10-20 and refuses to straddle and I will generally be the one to politely explain what the game is and the fact that everyone else is 'doing it' and actually they are changing the game and dynamic of the table by refusing but a) being rude and bullying to people is just not on...apart from being bad for business and I always speak out and b) in a situation like this when the game is actually different than advertised, it's even more inexcusable

re the Aria room/floor staff....I've never played big there and I'm only there for 10 days ish each wsop but I've always thought the room to be the best run of the major rooms on the Strip.

I also have never played in a rock game and am not sure what it is because we don't have it in Australia. (is it that the winner of previous hand puts the straddle down but it becomes like an effective button or sth?)

it is well organized, no doubt ... the stuff i'm talking about is more "under the surface" so to say, but you will have to deal with it when you play there on a regular basis

exactly, winner of the last hand is automatic straddle (it's called the rock, it's an extra 10$ chip within a plastic case) for the next hand, action starts after the rock (preflop), and then normal again postflop

the specialty at aria is that they straddle after the rock, meaning it's a double straddle for 20 ... making the game effectively a 4 blinds game 5-5-10-20

exactly. besides being an unpleasant experience for everyone involved it's also effing stupid and bad for business

for me personally it's all about "the tone" - there's a big difference between asking and/or explaining politely how the game runs and yelling or telling someone what to do.

i had a funny situation there, almost everyone knows me there, i'm kind of the non-local reg when i'm in town, so i get into an early morning game, only one guy at the table i didn't know, and this guy immediately when i sat down before even saying anything else liek 'good morning' or whatever tells me in a very rude way:
"Hey, we're all straddling" (like, ****ing get with the program or else...)
the other regs who of course know me and know that i'm ok with straddling didn't say anything, besides for 1 or 2 funny smiles, i also didn't react but just sat down and started playing. when the first situation came up where it was my straddle i didn't do it, waiting for the reaction from the rude guy which came as expected.
I then only turned to him and explained in my sweetest voice possible:
"oh, my bad, i thought you were just informing me that you guys were all straddling, which is good to know ... i usually don't do that, but thanks for asking"

the look on his face was worth it, i can tell you ... ;-)))

some more tips/advice for anyone who plans to play in that game:

1. the game usually opens with a couple of regs, and is most likely a tough game. the second game (must move) is often softer. when i come in later and don't start in the first game, i don't put my name on the list until there's at least 8-9 names on there already - this way i can stay much longer in the must move, and don't have to go to the main very early.

2. when they start a 3rd game, the second game also turns into a main game (2 mains then), and the 3rd will become the feeder for those 2 games. you can then table change between game 1 and 2 - try to get on the list for table change early, so you have an option, tipping as mentioned above always helpful in this case

3. something i learned just recently:
depending on game composition, there's often a hustle for seats when a seat opens and a new player comes in ... the guys at the table have first pick, with the order of pick determined by seniority (who is the longest at the table).
of course you want to have position on good and active players, but not on their immediate left (bc then you might have to straddle more than you like).

but: when you are the one coming in, and the seat is reserved from someone at the table who wants to change (but can't do it now, bc he's in a hand), he can only block this seat for 1 hand, meaning, they can't force you to sit out for 2 hands bc it's a time game. only exception: when's he's in the SB, bc next hand is button, and you can't come in on the button anyways.

I hope to play in that game on our trip later this month if I'm up. Interesting about the seat change -- makes sense.

Funny, I used to feel like a non-local reg in the 1/2/5 PLO at Aria when we'd go four or five times a year, but not as much now (two or three times). I still know most of the players, though, and they know me, which is fun. I can't act like a newb, though, which I like to do when possible 😉

good luck.
my advice (if you play), play deep. I always buy in for the max (2K).
Played this game a ton, and the times i've seen a short stack run it up successfully i can count on one hand without having to use all fingers ;-))

People are too good, know how to play against a shorty, and on top nobody takes you serious ... but if you play deep and tight, and have/get a hand, you usually still get paid, bc people don't like to fold (lots of ego involved too sometimes)

Thanks. Yes, the few times I've played in that game I've bought in max. They are definitely good players. I have an advantage of being a woman, so they assume I have it when I bet 😉 I've done well / held my own, but it's been a few years. I play PLO online daily and whenever I can live, and my game seems better than it was, so hopefully I can run it up!

Really appreciate all the nuanced discussion between the 1-2-5 games and the 5-5 rock games.

This is highly relevant to my interests once I make it out there this summer.

I’m currently learning plo as I make the switch from hold em. Have enjoyed reading your HHs in the Omaha forum. Why do you think Vegas gets so little plo action outside of Aria? How was the 1-2-5 game when you sat that? Good on you for sticking up for that rec

Pokerbros_Player was obviously there more recent than I, but I play in the 1/2/5 many times a year and I was there in the fall.

It's a really good game for the most part. From my experience, it plays like most 1/2/5 PLO games depending on the line-up. There are a lot of regulars, but the good news is that most of them aren't great players. There are only a few you need to look out for, and they should be easy to spot. As with any PLO game, sometimes it can be very aggressive and high variance -- it just depends on who's playing.

I recommend it, but if you are just learning, play tight and pay attention!

re. action:
well, i guess Aria is just the "established" place, it's like when you try to start a new poker site or dating site, you need a critical mass to get it going .. and Aria has reached that mass (amount of players), you simply know there's always a game, often one of each, (1-2/5 and 5-5 rock) goes all night and doesn't break at all, and there's always a list so you know the game never is in danger of breaking.

Wynn, the other place with PLO, gets this kind of traffic only for wsop and in december

re. 1-2/5:
all what Java mentioned, plus:
people in that game are in general much worse in the bomb pots, i've seen really terrible punts (and i mean beyond horrible) in those, even in otherwise tight games with little action i've seen people go nuts and we had 5K bomb pots with 4 people all in or stuff like that.

and it's in no way a small game (with the 1K buyin), you can make (or loose) serious money in that game, so take it serious.

but since the blinds or only 1-2, it really pays to play it patiently, good starting hands only, and then aggressive.

final point: the bigger game is of course more dangerous, and people are much more tricky, in the 1-2/5 most people play very straight forward ... like for example, if they 3bet, it's 99% aces, very rarely you see a 3bet with 8TJQ ds or something like that

good luck