Do I play it wrong in this spot?
2/5 9 handed.
PF: UTG (cover others) limp, +1 (~500) limp call, fold to hero (~850) with AsTs in the BTN raise to 30. Both calls others fold. Pot: 90.
F: KcTc6d. check to me I bet 40, both call. Pot: 210.
T: Th. both check to me I bet 140. UTG raise to 300. +1 calls. I shove remaining 650 both calls. Pot: ~2200
Utg shows KK and we are drawing almost dead. we lost this pot.
I think this is kind of like a cooler to me. When the turn comes the T and UTG check raise here, the board is very wet and the recreational +1 calls there, any 9 or K or club in the river will make my hands not good any more. Since no one limp raise pre and check raise the flop, i don't put them on KK, KT and 66 on this wet flop. The question is am I over play my hand to shove the turn when utg check raise there? This person I saw him overplay his hands often, will he have QT, JT, and T9 there? If I just call the turn, probably I will call the river if no draw get it.
5 Replies
Just a cooler.
EDIT: don't need to bet the flop at all, if you do, go smaller, but after the turn, it plays itself.
Im not betting flop. AP Im going bigger on turn almost pot. AP someone has 66 usually. KK is lol.
Was UTG an old man, and was he drinking coffee?
FLOP - C-betting flop is debatable. Don't really feel like debating it.
TURN - Standard-sized 2/3 pot bet is standard. But when UTG raises, especially a stupid-small, barely 2x your bet raise size, and +1 calls, that's danger, Will Robinson.
Yes, it's a cooler, but honestly, the way this played, it may be the easiest cooler to avoid in the history of poker. This board isn't THAT wet. This is almost never someone with a draw suddenly getting out of line, deciding to rep trips or better by raising the PFR in a multi-way pot.
Not trying to beat you up here, but before you dismiss this as "just a cooler", take a step back and consider what hands the V's can have that you beat, and that get played this way, and that your hand doesn't block. They can't both be shoveling money into the pot with a worse T.
Best case, one of the V's has QJcc and the other has a worse T. But neither of those hands really wants to blast off here, when you raise pre, c-bet flop, and barrel turn. Very often, someone slow-played a flopped set or 2P that turned a boat.
it is a cooler, but i agree with the others that it could have been played better and it was a difficult crying fold but definitely a fold
see absolutely no reason to cbet flop - even if they don't have any kings and we can thus rep one, there's a number of draws on the board that'll keep them in the hand and we're just inflating the pot with middle pair that has very few turns which we feel good continuing on
two callers makes it very likely one of them is two pair or a set, obviously there's Kx and flush/straight draws as well so not always but definitely something to consider
turn, i like the bet there, you get a dream card come out and as mentioned, your opponents still heavy on Kx and draws
but.. once they min raise and call you're almost certainly drawing dead, i would put 66 or better as a near certainty
someone with QJ or a flush draw is never min raising there, they are either calling to see a cheap river or jamming hoping to take it down there with outs in case they get called - you know UTG never has a draw here but has pure value and is trying to squeeze every inch of that pot out, utg+1 possibly has a draw or a lesser Tx but you are almost never beating UTG here in my mind and the second person calling ensures that i'm cry folding here every time
also... i think you're missing out on a lot here, you give no villain descriptions
i don't know if they just sat down or you've been playing against these guys for over an hour - but the kind of playing who limps KK utg and then just flats a btn raise is a very specific kind of player and someone you should have been able to scan and recognize was that kind of player within a few orbits
this was a cooler 100%, and there are 100% going to be times where you fold here and then see JT vs a missed flush draw and feel stupid, but this is a fold all day, every day imo and you could have lost quite a bit less than you did (which will more than make up for the handful of times you see JT and feel stupid)
cooler isnt the correct term since we 3bet jammed and can never get called by worse, but we should have the best hand here all the time so what do we do? The minraise by V is loltastic and always indicative of the nuts but how does the nuts get here? Does V think JT is the nuts? Probably, so I'm ok with putting him on the losing end of this hand more often than some nonsense slowplayed set.
In a nutshell you're going broke here at this stack depth, but next time dont ship over a check raise. It's unnecessary and at best you run into hands with a ton of equity but most of the time you're just beat since nothing can continue against such action.
