Too passive with TT in the LJ?

Too passive with TT in the LJ?

1/2. No reads. Just sat down.

V1 (covers hero) in UTG limps. Hero (335) in the LJ raises to 12 with TT. V2 in HJ calls. V1 calls. 3-way.

Flop (34 after rake): K64r.

V1 checks. Hero? Hero checks, planning to bet the turn if V2 checks. V2 in fact bets 20. V1 folds. Hero folds.

13 January 2024 at 02:27 PM
Reply...

12 Replies



With no reads, it's fine. Folding is 0 EV. There's an argument to be made you should cbet this flop like 30% of the time, check/fold 30% and check/call 30%. But it's hard to know where you're at without any background. It's possible he's stabbing at this because both of you checked and he's in position. It's possible he's stabbing at it because he hit the King. It's also possible you've folded the best hand. I don't hate floating the flop bet and re-evaluating on turn, but again, without reads - you're flying blind.


My attitude when it comes to being the PFR with a pocket pair, and then seeing an over-card on the flop, is that we shouldn't necessarily be scared to c-bet, depending on the flop texture. As the PFR, our range is uncapped. We can rep all the strong hands our opponents are less likely to have.

So, I'd probably c-bet the flop. If stacks were deeper, and if V was the type to bet whenever action gets checked to him, I might x/r.

Here, with the shorter stack depth, I'd probably just call flop, and see what the turn card is. I'd be betting any A or T, and maybe another K. It would help to have some live reads on V2. I'd check a brick, and if he checks back, I'd be looking to lead a lot of rivers.


Yeah way too passive and tight.

I'd size up pf due to the rake live and the fact people call wider.

This flop is very good for you, you should bet small for value and some protection not letting hands like A8o get a free card.

Also not to get bluffed out of your own pot if you plan on check folding because there is a single over card.


Yeah, this flop looks good for the pfr, and should almost be a range cbet. Then reevaluate if you get action.


In 1/2 I like going $10 as a standard open and 15 with one limper.

With no reads I think flop betting ~10, check call, check fold are all okay. We probably aren't going to be able to call a larger turn barrel unimproved though, and we will rarely improve.

TT is interesting in that it needs some protection that QQ doesn't need as much and it can get called by worse if it bets. Villain can also stab with worse when you check.

Another thing to think about is that you should have some hands to check call or check raise with. If the table just sees you check folding on a K high flop as the preflop raiser, they might just bet every time you check an auto profit.

If only V1 called I would probably range bet flop, but given v2 called, we might want to check Kx, AA, and top set sometimes.


Thank you everyone for the comments. I learned several lessons from this one: raising more preflop, betting or even check raising on the flop, being careful with TT not to get bluffed by worse.

Would you believe, when I played online, that my biggest leak by far was too high flop aggression? I’ve learned from the forum to go more carefully multi-way post flop. But this hand I was too passive.


I make it 15 pre and bet flop for 1/3rd. I have all the big KX and want to keep the betting lead from the middle position. Barrelling A, Q, T depending on who calls flop.


by wnrwnrchkndnnr k

With no reads, it's fine. Folding is 0 EV. There's an argument to be made you should cbet this flop like 30% of the time, check/fold 30% and check/call 30%. But it's hard to know where you're at without any background. It's possible he's stabbing at this because both of you checked and he's in position. It's possible he's stabbing at it because he hit the King. It's also possible you've folded the best hand. I don't hate floating the flop bet and re-evaluating on turn, but again, without reads -

I agree with all this. Betting is OK with our middling strength vulnerable hand, and yes HJ has the green light to bet once you check, and yes UTG folds (if they called it would be a snap fold for me) but ultimately you're out of position with two further streets to go and it's fine to sometimes get bluffed off your hand. So yes cbet, check-call and check-fold are all fine.


by adonson k

or even check raising on the flop

I think Miark was giving you general information on things to do in these types of situations, so you would wanna do that on occasion against people you play with all the time, not really on the average 1/2 table full of random recreational unknowns. I don't like c/r'ing here, I would just cbet the flop then if he calls, depending on what the turn card is you can bet again small or check behind. If we c/r and he calls, we're eff'd. We're also pushing him off hands like 77, 88 or 99. Limp/calls from UTG are usually small to upper med PP's and big Ax or suited B'dway hands imhe btjm.


I think this is easier to play if you bet flop.

Sometimes both players fold. Easy. Sometimes the player behind you folds and you get it heads up in position and most likely get it checked to you on the turn. If villain 2 calls and bets turn, that looks stronger.

As played I call. Sometimes villain will check turn and maybe even river if he has nothing and you get to realize your equity. If villain bets turn again it is far less likely to be a bluff.

What is villain even betting here with anyway? If it’s a weak king or middle pocket pair he might check the turn (and maybe even river). Maybe he has 64 or sets but there aren’t that many of those hands.


by Playbig2000 k

I think Mlark was giving you general information on things to do in these types of situations, so you would wanna do that on occasion against people you play with all the time, not really on the average 1/2 table full of random recreational unknowns.

I agree. Thanks for the clarification.


by Steve00007 k

I think this is easier to play if you bet flop.

Sometimes both players fold. Easy. Sometimes the player behind you folds and you get it heads up in position and most likely get it checked to you on the turn. If villain 2 calls and bets turn, that looks stronger.

As played I call. Sometimes villain will check turn and maybe even river if he has nothing and you get to realize your equity. If villain bets turn again it is far less likely to be a bluff.

What is villain even betting here with any

This.

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