5-10-20 weird turn spot facing overbet

5-10-20 weird turn spot facing overbet

5-10-20, 2.5k eff

Hj (covers) opens to 85 (usually rfi sizing between 60-90) aggro fish, 55-60 yo asian guy. Very active pre and post. Seen him do a few turn overbets, hasn’t gone to showdown so not sure if he has it or not when he does it. No one’s played back at him yet so not sure if he has a fold button or not.

Co passive fish (1.3k) calls

Im straddle (2.5k) with Js9s and call (in before fold pre duh)

Flop (270)

Qs8d5s

I check/ he cbets 175/ co folds/ I call? Was gonna c/r a smaller flop size but 3way i dont think he’s just blasting with air on that board.

Qs8d5s Jd (620)

I check/ he bets 800/ i have 2.2k left and?

I think all 3 options are fine and honestly not liking any of them.

20 January 2024 at 04:33 PM
Reply...

10 Replies



Hand seems fine up to this point. Maybe too loose of a defend pre but i think its fine and right on the threshold between call and fold.

River i would never consider folding. With a pair plus fd plus gutshot just have too much equity to consider folding imo. Maybe thats too loose against this size but i dont think so.

Jamming is a nice option but id feel more comfortable doing that against a player that i know will be somewhat balanced with bluffs/value with their overbets because of increased fold equity. If i think their size is weighted heavily towards value then i just call.


From the straddle your hand is not loose at all to be defending here and it is actually the kind of hand you can squeeze a lot with from the straddle.

GTO Wizard doesn't allow for the CO to cold call in the straddle sum, but check out this sim 200bb (100 straddles) deep where HJ opens 4.5 bb, and button calls:


Yes, it different because the raise size is 8.5bb and we are a little deeper, but our hand is nowhere near fold territory and we can still squeeze it.

Flop I think can go either way between raise or call. But if you aren't raising this hand as a semi bluff, then what are you raising? Seems to be one of the best.

On the turn all 3 options are not on the table. We can never fold. It is just close between jamming and calling. But if you aren't jamming this hand as a semi bluff, what are you jamming?


I'm not x/r'ing flop when he bets 2/3 pot into 2 opponents. Maybe if he bet 1/3 or less.

Turn, I think I'd just jam. If we call, we'll be pot committed. May as well jam for max FE / max value.


Pre is borderline but it's an interesting spot, so thanks for sharing Joe.

I agree with docvail on flop.

But even aggro fish get hands occasionally. V is essentially uncapped on turn, so I don't see the benefit of raising. I'm not sure there's enough of a range that we can target for FE. J is a good range card for H and V comes out barreling.

We're almost getting 2-1 to call and we have turned more equity. So I would rather call and try to make my hand on the river. I can also find a fold here but perhaps not against V as described when I think I have as many as 15 live outs on the river.


Pre and flop are fine. Turn is a jam. I guess you can call, but he shuts down on a lot of rivers that hit you and you want to maximize FE (his folding would be fine with me).


Preflop is standard, definitely not too loose.
A solver would squeeze a lot, as Mlark pointed out, but I suspect that a loose live player folds to 3bets way less than he should, so calling here seems just right.

Flop seems like an almost ideal spot for a C/R.
I understand that V bet quite big into two opponents, and I don't hate a call, but I think I'd raise more often than not.

Turn, now hu, V overbets and we are in a tricky spot. We have too much equity to fold, but I doubt that V will fold at this point, so I am not so thrilled by a raise-shove.
I would probably call and shove river if we improve, just c/f if not.
Not that I love this line either, but it looks like the best compromise to me.


I don't see how we can just flat call the turn, with our remaining stack depth. We'll be pot-committed to calling down any river card, whether we improve or not.

Hero could have top 2, or T9s for a straight, and want to jam this turn when the second flush draw appears. Jamming puts a ton of pressure on V's top-pairs, over-pairs and better draws.

If everyone's been folding to his turn over-bets, he could be over-doing it, and mixing in some bluffs and over-plays with more marginal hands.


I don't think we are necessarily pot committed on the river. A river shove is still 63% pot and our range by the river should be very filtered when we call a decent size bet on the flop multiway and a turn overbet heads up. There has to be some bottom of our range that we fold at least sometimes on certain runnouts.

The thing that is nice about a turn shove is that sometimes we have the best hand and sometimes we get called by worse. KTss, KTdd, 76ss, 76dd, AKss, AKdd, maybe ATss, ATdd, 9d7d is a double gutter. Some hands might fold that have decent equity like straight draws without flush draws. And we definitely have value hands that would check call flop and would be fine getting it in now. QJ, maybe a slow played set, T9. We block QJ and T9.

We've seen villain do a few turn overbets and describe him as an agro fish. We don't have it confirmed that he has overbet bluffed, but based on the description, I think it is okay to shove here. Worst case is he is underbluffing, but we have decent equity and we buy ourselves action if we have to showdown a losing hand.


PF fine especially w/ fish.

I'm not CRing too many FDs, but this is one I would. Call is obviously fine as well.

I like jamming the turn as opposed to calling I think it's going to be higher EV


if you think his range is too strong to xr into otf, i find it hard to believe turn xr is going to be the play. maybe with more behind but like turn hes going to be need what? 28% to call it off on a board where there's 2 fds and he loses to very few credible combos (QJss, T9ss, very discounted slowplays) and theres a good amount of semi bluffs available. idk i think its a pretty tough spot and wouldn't fault any of the options which makes me think ev is incredibly close between them. i guess i have a slight preference towards call, and would think thats the best option if we had omniscience / player reads. would never ever fold pre

Reply...