Standard Hand (?) Followed by Odd Reaction
I thought I played this hand in reasonably standard fashion, but got an odd reaction from V afterward. Curious on others' thoughts...
1-2 NL
UTG (~200) limps.
Hero in UTG+1 (~480) raises AhKh to 12. My standard preflop raise in this game is 5x, plus any limpers. Sometimes this gets folds all around, and other times it gets 5 callers...typical 1-2!
Folds to BB, who covers. BB came to table ~30-45 minutes prior from a table that broke. He's on the 2-5 list, and seems competent and aggressive. I don't recall playing with him before, and I play 2-3x/week. BB calls.
UTG folds.
Flop (27): 8c8s7s; Check-check. Sure, I can cbet here, but don't want to risk getting check-raised, & BB seems competent enough to know that this flop is more favorable for his defending range than my EP raising range.
Turn (27): Ad; BB bets 20, I call. I see no reason to raise here, as I'm not likely getting called by worse. Maybe some AX hands that I beat, but he'd fold unimproved pocket pairs, and again, a re-raise from him would put me in a real tough spot.
River (67): 2h. Total brick. BB checks. I feel I'm likely best here, and probably get value from some portion of his AX hands. Maybe a bet-fold line is in order here, perhaps in the 25-30 range. However, in game I checked back & immediately rolled over my hand. BB shoots me a look, scrunching his face and frowning, before mucking. The look seemed to be saying "WTF, dude?" but I could be wrong.
Other than maybe not betting the river, anything particularly unusual about how I played this?
11 Replies
Other than maybe not betting the river, anything particularly unusual about how I played this?
It's that you didn't bet the river. Clearly you have to bet. Idk if it's a bet fold even if he can bluff.
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I'd interpret it as him saying, "you're such a donk." Yeah, bet the river, but you didn't do anything that was horrible. If he was a better player, he should be thrilled you didn't make him call another bet.
I think river is a pretty mandatory bet as played. There is so much worse that can call and I wouldn't expect to get check-raised very often when villain had one of the best check-raise spots in the world on the turn and didn't take it.
I also think cbetting the flop here is good. It's basically a value bet. There is so much worse that will call.
If I was the villain and got to the river with a hand like ATcc or JTss I might also make a face knowing that I saved basically my entire stack.
Perhaps he has gas.
Flop you can bet small just to annoy A5/QJ/33/whatever, can be bad if V starts x/r 66/7x pairs and draws though.
People expect a lot of cbets but still often just x/f here, and they are much more likely to randomly bet any turn when you check flop (like here, where V almost certainly shouldn't be betting and certainly not for the size he picked).
Turn bet is pretty big, if it was even $15 into $27 instead of $20 I'd probably raise but I'm fine calling.
River you have to bet something, would def. try to make a note that in similar spots you either have the nuts or air.
bet $30 on the river and fold to a raise. rest of the hand is standard.
against any halfway decent player i default check behind a lot of my range on most paired boards which includes most Ax, AA, KK, and QQ. some have other strategies but that works for me. the only hands i bet are things like TT on 887 where i want random overs to fold so i 1/2 pot it, or if i flopped a flush draw and want to start building a pot worth bluffing on later streets (i always assume i will whiff draws so i always think about how to plan the bluff). if you do this 100% of the time though it can get transparent though, obviously, so probably some deviation is good.
maybe you could call a river raise if tom dwan is villain. unlikely at 1/2.
I bet the river, think we have to get some value here. I would make it a valuey $40 to $50.
I interpret the funny face as 'why didn't he bet?' or possibly 'I was sure my Ax was good :('. For what it's worth, players who just lost a hand exhibit a wide range of reactions, some of which can get pretty ridiculous. I try not to buy into worrying about it too much.
I play the rest of the hand the same way.
Im raising/folding turn, but whatever, most 1/2 players are pretty passive about raising. The whiff on the river bet is a pretty huge error and almost certainly indicative that your game isnt even close to aggressive enough. Im betting A9 there much less AK.
Not betting the river is extremely bad. This is a wonderful run out for your hand and you are getting 1 street.
Flop (27): 8c8s7s; Check-check. Sure, I can cbet here, but don't want to risk getting check-raised, & BB seems competent enough to know that this flop is more favorable for his defending range than my EP raising range.
You're over thinking things a bit. You are only 100bbs deep so V is not going to try to run you off an overpair just because he has more 8s. There are a ton of draws you are getting value from. Why let hands like QJ draw? So I'd mostly bet the flop here, IP. If he CRs you, it's OK to fold. If he calls, lots of things could happen. Maybe the turn is a blank and it's check check. The river misses all the draws, you could think about calling a river bet.
Not betting the river is extremely bad. This is a wonderful run out for your hand and you are getting 1 street.
You're over thinking things a bit. You are only 100bbs deep so V is not going to try to run you off an overpair just because he has more 8s. There are a ton of draws you are getting value from. Why let hands like QJ draw? So I'd mostly bet the flop here, IP. If he CRs you, it's OK to fold. If he calls, lots of things could happen. Maybe the turn is a blank and it's check check
That's quite the take on a generic "competent and aggressive" player who usually plays higher stakes.
An intelligent player would never say this. So “the look seemed to” is just you beating yourself up. Like everyone says, checking the river is bad, but it’s a small mistake. I’ve beaten myself up a lot making these errors. There’s no need to beat yourself too.