Flopped straight, but V donks the board-pairing river...

I call, he's probably raising at some point with a set and I don't see a higher straight in his range. Maybe A7ss. If it's a blocker bet he's folding to a raise anyway.

Preflop looks spewy to me. Winner's tilt?

SPR is ~6, board is very drawy, lotta scare cards to kill action, someone likely has a piece of this they aren't folding, and table seems to be in spew mode. I might actually overbet this flop to setup a turn shove. Although I get our reasoning for the small sizing.

I would consider jamming the turn to free roll against 5x. Otherwise cool with a large PSB.

Think I just call the river. Don't think we can fold for this price. Sets are very unlikely given flop (although 87 is possible). Doubt worse is calling a raise.

GcluelessNLnoobG

In before someone says fold pre?

I would call. You beat some value (A7s, maybe 97s if he limp-calls it) and probably chop a lot. Don't think much good happens if you raise. I also think I would check-raise flop.

EDIT: nvm

By the time this hand was played, I'd been having my way with the table for hours. With how splashy-spewy the action was, I had widened my opening range a lot.

I considered check-raising flop, but ruled it out. I wasn't sure any of the V's behind me would attempt a bluff in a five-way pot.

My thinking was that V2 in the CO was the most likely to bet if action checked to him, and V1 or V4 might call, but then it looks super-strong if I check-raise. It makes it easy for all the V's to fold anything worse than 2P.

I figured I could get more value for my hand just by c-betting small, and either getting called, or even better, getting raised by 2P / sets. Even if one of the V's has 85, I still had the flush draw as back-up to my straight.

Impossible to know if V2, V3, or V4 would have bet had I checked. But if any of them did bet, V1 definitely would have called, and probably would have called the check-raise.

I just call. Most likely chopping or you are beat, but you might be good. However, doubt he's calling a shove w/ worse than a chop, and I don't think he's folding better.

So...everyone seems to be leaning towards call, which was the way I was leaning in game.

One of my initial thoughts was that check-call, check-call, donk is a fairly under-bluffed line.

I didn't think he'd be bluffing for this size with his missed flush draws, but I also didn't think he'd just check-call flop and turn and then bet this small size with 2P or a set that boated up. It just seemed like maybe he got to the river with some 7Xss combo that ran into trips, like As7s, and if so, I could maybe raise for value.

But then again, As7s is TPTK with the NFD on the flop, and action folded to him after I c-bet. I'd think he might check-raise the flop at least some of the time, to build a pot, once we're heads up.

What threw me was the bet sizing of 1/4 pot. This seemed like block-bet sizing, not polarized sizing. It just seemed a little weird for him to donk bet the river on this runout if he ran into trips, and is hoping to get called by all my over-pairs. I'd just be folding out all my bluffs, obviously, and I might find a fold with 99+.

Like, I raised pre, c-bet the flop into four opponents, and barreled huge on the turn. Is he worried I'd slow down and check-back with all my over-pairs and missed draws, just because the board pairs on the end? Does he think I have straights in my range here, or boats? Is he planning to fold if I raise? Or was he hoping to induce me to raise?

I dunno. It struck me as being pretty face up, almost always 7Xss, yet I couldn't bring myself to raise. Something just felt off about it.

Do you think he calls your raise with worse? Also he can bluff 3b if he has eg 89 with nice blockers.
Obviously fold pre ainec.

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pre is obviously unnecessary but something good players do now and again. the reasons probably vary from boredom to image to having it be a postflop learning experience (if you're willing to learn from what happens postflop when you do this that makes you better than like 99% of players). ppl who compare themselves to others on their ability to nit it up preflop and read a starting hand chart arent offering anything constructive, imo.

I'd check the flop because i dont cbet here with anything OOP vs 2. then probably making a decent but not huge CR.

call river.

I love that I honestly can't decide if you're calling me a good player or suggesting I may be unwilling to learn from mistakes.

Well played, NOM. Well. Played.

you seem like a good player to me, so that that implies you are probably playing this hand out of combination of boredom and experimentation. take that for what you will.

i wouldnt ever play this hand pf in this position, but thats just my way of doing things. doesnt mean its right or wrong.

Good question.

At first blush, I think most of us would say he never calls a raise with worse. But if we put ourselves in V's spot, and try to assign hero a range, I think it's possible hero has enough worse hands that still want to raise over a river donk bet of 1/4 pot.

Like, what would we do here as hero with all our big PP's, or 97, T7, or K7? V had seen me check-raise-jam river as a bluff, into a new player who 3B pre, and went bet-bet-bet.

If hero raises, is V folding trip 7's, ever? He's blocking our boats, and he may not believe we'd raise with our straights. From his perspective, we'd be repping a very narrow range of flopped or turned sets.

I don't think I've ever seen a low-stakes rec, or even a reg, donk-3B the river as a bluff.

Thank you for the compliment. It's a nice change from the usual, which is mostly people telling me I'm punting and over-thinking things.

In most games, against most V's, opening 53s from most positions is probably neg EV. When this hand was played, I was feeling pretty unstoppable, having started the session stuck $1k, and clawing my way back to having an over $3k stack.

There was some meta-game happening, too. The one V was clearly tilted, and spewing. The two opponents on either side of me were short-stacked and playing nitty. The V I'd check-jammed on as a bluff seemed to be looking for some revenge. The V who hit the high hand couldn't seem to find the fold button. The main V here had recently re-loaded, and seemed to be borderline tilted.

Plus, I was just running good. I mean, when you raise 53s, and flop the joint with a re-draw to a flush, in a five-way pot, you know you're having a good night.

I think the reason this hand stuck with me was the conversation with V after showdown.

Preflop is of course terrible.

Bet larger or checkraise on the flop. I can see you want to represent an overpair and induce a raise, but people don't raise that much at 1/3. The 1/3 pot cbet is just awful. You don't want them to see the turn cheaply on the wet board.

I would call the river.

Curious if all the people saying just call would fold if V donk shoved river.

I probably sigh call river, because it's weird and 88/87/76 might always play this way.

I would really _want_ to raise river because I can't see myself folding for more, so why wouldn't he bet more if he had it. V1 having 98/99/TT here might be pretty normal vs. a loosened TAG when UTG2 raises a limp and gets 3 calls behind. Then he's block betting the river, except can he fold when you raise?
Depends a lot on his thoughts on your range ... obv. assuming he's not expecting 53s.

If turn was a 2,J,Q,K I probably shrug raise, maybe on a 3 too.

I appreciate you taking the time to think about this.

This one got stuck in my head. My first and immediate thought when he donked river for a small size was that he had to be block betting with trips, figuring I was repping an over-pair or air.

He might be worried I'd likely check back with my over-pairs, and might not continue bluffing with my air. But I might try to come over the top when he bets small, which suggests he wouldn't fold to a raise. And therefore, if he's block-betting trips, hoping to induce a raise as a bluff, I should raise my straight for value, no?

Pausing a moment longer, it then occurred to me maybe he could have 88/87 that played this way.

76 seemed less likely, if only because I don't think he's giving me credit for much 77, 66, 44, 85, or 53 on the flop, and so he'd more than likely fast-play 76 by check-raising, or just donking out for a large size, to get value from my over-pairs, and all my draws, and prevent the flop from checking around.

Tanking a little longer, all those other thoughts crossed my mind - why wouldn't he check if he thinks I'm bluffing, to let me barrel off? Why wouldn't he bet more with the nut straight, if he's mostly giving me over-pairs? Does he ever go for the check-raise with a boat? Does he donk for this size with a boat? Was I supposed to check back all my thin value in this spot?

This seems like a really good run-out for him to bluff big. This board has to favor his range more than mine, no? Maybe I fold my over-pairs to a big bet. When he takes this 1/4 pot sizing, there's not much in my value range that I'm folding. It's basically a size to get me off of ace-high.

Then I started to discount 88 as a limp-call pre, and discount 87 that didn't raise turn, and discount T9 that check-calls flop and doesn't raise turn. And if he's not limping in with 88 pre, then he doesn't have 99 or TT. That's kind of where I got stuck.

If I'm discounting all his boats and higher straights, then he's capped at trips, and I should raise. But then again, raising assumes he's playing all his better combos the way I would, and maybe he doesn't.

And, if I raise, what are my bluffs? Am I raising with over-pairs, or unpaired over-cards, or my busted flush draws? Does he think I'm insane? What sensible raise could I have, that blocks his thick value? If we want to block his boats, straights, and trip 7's, my best bluffs would just be two combos of 9s7s or 7s5s, and those both seem like hands that can flat call.

If V had shoved river, I'd have been in the blender. I mean, if I'm going to open 53 for a raise, and flop a straight, I'm pretty close to the top of my range, and V could be over-playing trips, or even have the same straight. I'd have to be pretty sure he's not tilted from going bust to feel good about folding.