Pocket JJ on CO

hand makes no sense, amts and action are screwed up. please edit.

What part
4 times 55 = 220
105 x 4 + 220 = 640

The phrasing is "BB Leads" not "BB opens" when it's on the flop.

What is the 2B amount by whom after BB bets 35?

What do you mean 2b amount it went from 35$ to a 3 bet of 105$ by hero and everyone called

Weird spot. We aren't folding for 1/16th pot, but calling looks pretty face up as exactly JJ or QQ.

This spot could have been avoided by getting a count of MP's chips on the flop and putting him all-in with our raise. The raise to $105 is very small anyway, as there is already more than $300 in the pot.

I would call the $40 bet and fold to any check-raise, as this is a spot that is (theoretically, at least) impossible to bluff. Then, hope it checks to you on the river so you can check behind (unless it comes a J or maybe 5, of course.)

No the 105 is a 2 bet not a 3 bet.

3bet does not mean to triple the bet.
It refers to the 2nd raise on a given street.

So action preflop could be described like:
MP raises to $15
HJ calls
Hero 3-bets to $55

We don't usually say "2 bet" for the first raise but that's a way of understanding why a 3bet is called what it is. It's probably an adaptation of terminology from Limit poker but the amounts in NL are not in fixed increments

What elmcityboy wrote. $105 not big enough is a big problem. The original $55 was too small, too :( Should have been at least $60, but more like $75 vs these players and trying to commit the $200 stack now.

I should have looked at the sizing of MP stack and took him all in or a little over. My pre flop bet I know was way too small if I am trying to represent AA, however one thing to note I do not think that BB is ever folding on this flop regardless of c-bet and is most likely going to size huge on the flop, if pre was raised significantly. Remember BB has got to be semi on tilt he just lost half of his stack to HJ about an orbit ago and may just jam if I get out of pocket with a huge bet. HJ is also a maniac who gave away a couple 100$ and lost on a few hands after winning a massive pot and is down to 700ish and will stay around for complete trash but has a few tells once the hand starts.

I saw BB previously stayed around a hand with 9s on a super wet board of overs for almost half his stack just to catch a set on the river and still lose to HJ who also liked the 9 because it completed his gut shot. There was something about the way BB was holding his cards at the start of the hand super tightly that lead me to believe he was holding a strong hand before I even raised to 55$. Or that he was still angry from the large donation....

Java from 55 to 60 here isn't a huge difference, but with jacks in position you really believe 75$ is the right amount?

I'll tell you how the hand played out after a few more people have a chance to give there advice / opinions.

3B larger pre. With a loose player calling the $15 open, I'd probably make it $75, to put real pressure on the opener and the flat caller, and not invite anyone behind us to cold call.

Raise flop over this ridiculous donk size, when we have a vulnerable over-pair to the board. But raise bigger. $105 isn't nearly enough to fold out any hands once they call the $35. You have to make it obnoxiously large, like $210.

Seriously, what is with these small raise sizes? You're asking for trouble.

Once HJ calls turn on the Kc, I think we have to raise again. Think I might make it $450.

Generally preflop if you are raising you should be raising the same amount with all your hands, unless you have a split where you jam some hands and make a smaller raise with other hands - usually when you are considering 4betting.

To be honest there are a lot of poker fundamentals you should learn. Maybe taking some holdem fundamentals type course from Jonathan Little or something like that.

Why would you try to represent AA? That makes no sense, everyone would fold or deep stacks play perfectly post flop.

You should generally raise the same sizing for all preflop raises, particularly opens and isos, perhaps with some deviations if you are playing all droolers (this sounds like your table) who won’t be able to exploit sizing tells, more so for 3!/4!s.

In this spot the ideal situation is getting it in vs the $200 stack, at a minimum, with more loose players left to act with position on us, 4x + 15 for the caller, so 75, by the sounds of this table and with what played out, it would seem 85-90 would be okay.

Preflop sizing isn't awful. Anything 55-75 would be OK.

After the small BB flop lead and two calls on T55 board this is a pretty good situation for your overpair (until you face significant aggression, anyhow). Yes you should raise here; yes it should also be larger. There are no draws apart from, say, QJhh so you are up against a Ten, a 5, or nothing when you raise big and get called... although at the moment the flop action could keep any old overcards in there. Just raise to a decent amount - you hope that the fish are going to put you on AK.

As played, probably calling the 40 but it's now a bad situation with the King keeping everyone involved. This is exactly the situation you could have avoided with a proper sized flop raise

I think the pre flop sizing is bad because it doesn't fold out nearly enough hands from either opponent.

Very much appreciate the comments here. I wanted to make sure i saw my own mistake on this hand and get verification that it was indeed played poorly. I certainly should have 3! To at the very minimum the short stacks all in
plus maybe 15$.

if I get over jammed though it would be pretty hard to fold at that point and when ur playing low stakes people can easily limp their entire range.

Merry Christmas everyone

When there are short stacks involved in a hand, I try to size my raises such that the short stacks will feel pressure to fold or jam all in, rather than feel like they're priced in to call. I'll only size down when the betting won't be re-opened if they jam. In that scenario, I try not to raise more than 1/2 their stack.

So, for example, in this hand - MP opens to $15 off $200. An action player flats from the HJ off $700. In the CO, I want to 3B to a size that will fold out the BTN and the blinds, at a minimum, and also give the HJ a not-great price to over-call, assuming the original raiser calls, and will make it hard for the original raiser to 4B less than all-in.

I think raising to 5x ($75) should be enough to fold out the BTN and the blinds, if they're aware enough to realize the MP raiser might jam for $200, which will re-open the betting for us to re-jam. Even if the MP player flat calls (which would be a big mistake when he's only starting out with $200), it puts pressure on the HJ, who should see that the MP player only has $125 left, which is probably going in on the flop, and he'll be next to act.

But let's say there's a player on the BTN or in the blinds who only started the hand with $120. In that scenario, I want to 3B to $65 ($50 over the initial raise), so in the event the $120 stack gets pushed in (another $55 more), the betting is re-opened, and I can still 5B when action comes back around.

It's sort of a disaster if we make it $75, the short stack goes all in for $120, the original raiser folds, and the HJ calls, knowing we can't re-raise. We want to be able to put that last bet in pre-flop.

The problem with raising to $55 over a $15 raise and a call is that we're teeing up the BTN or blinds to squeeze when we go less than 4x, and even if they fold, the MP opener and HJ are getting a really good price to flat call and see a flop.

If the BTN and blinds call the $55, there's a good chance the MP player will jam, and with so much money in the pot, the HJ may call. At that point, we sort of have to re-jam with JJ, and pray everyone else folds.

Yeah, we'll have position on the MP and HJ if they just flat the $55, but it'll be harder to navigate post-flop, against a short-stack player with no history at the table, and a LAG on a deep stack. With only a PSB behind, the MP opener is going to be jamming on a lot of flops or turns, and we're going to be priced in to call.

If the MP player is going to jam, I'd rather he 4B jam pre than get to see a flop for $55 before deciding what he wants to do.

Love the explanation here def didn't put the re-jam after being priced to call action pre, which I'm fine with flipping the short stack for 200$ any day with jj's. I doubt I would have came to this thought process fast enough to not alert the players hey he's got a huge hand as I typically make decisions pre within about 45 seconds but mainly much much less. I do like to keep the game moving fast, but it's possibly I am costing myself a lot of money by not taking more time to go through multiple scenarios pre before betting.

I wouldn't 3B to $200, just to put MP all in, when the original raise was only for $15. That's just a ridiculous sizing.

We don't need to sit there very long, doing intricate mental math. It's enough to just look at the raise size of $15, multiply by 3, add 1 for the HJ caller, and then add one more, just to hedge against the likelihood that the original raiser will think he's priced in to call, and then the HJ REALLY thinks he's priced in.

That's pretty simple math - $15 x 3 = $45. Plus $15 = $60. Plus another $15 equals $75. Or just $15 x 5 = $75.

We could also just look at the MP's $200 stack, and aim for a number that's just over 1/3 of his stack if he calls, and end up in the same place - $75.

The point isn't to induce the MP player to jam (though I don't think we'd mind here, after he just flats the $15 open). The point is to put pressure on him, to make him think about how much he likes his hand, and if he likes it enough to call our $75 3B, when he's only starting out $200 effective.

We're not just doing this with JJ. We're also doing this with other hands that would NOT call if MP decides to jam. If he realizes the pot will be over $225 on the flop, and he'll only have $125 left, and he'll be OOP to you and the HJ, he'll probably realize he doesn't like his hand enough to flat call. Or, alternatively, he may decide he's just going with it, and we can fold hands worse than our JJ (assuming HJ doesn't call, and price us in to come along).

We also don't want to give the BTN or blinds a good price to come along behind us. We want the original opener to fold out at some frequency, because if he folds, there's a good chance the HJ player will fold, and we just scoop the pot without having to pay rake.

Lastly, we want the HJ to realize that if the MP player does jam, it re-opens the betting, so we can re-jam. Imagine being the HJ, calling the $15 open, we 3B to $75, and then MP 4B-jams to $200 before action gets back to HJ. How can he flat call, if he realizes that we can re-jam to isolate all that dead money?

He should be over-folding there. If he does flat call, I'd be re-jamming a ton, because what the hell can he possibly have that's good enough to call a $200 jam but wasn't good enough to 3B over a $15 open?

The only time I wouldn't re-jam is if I know HJ likes to slow-play big PP's pre, hoping for just this sort of scenario to play out. In that case, I just flat call, and see what he wants to do on the flop, praying we flop top set and he wants to "trap" with QQ-AA.

Good logic and simple explanation. The way you explained this really breaks it down and quickly to get to the correct play without over thinking it. Thanks for the advice.