2/5/10/25 small pair + FD in 3bet pot overbet turn after X,X flop, flush draw bricks on river

First things first. I've never played in a game like this, so please be kind.

Questions that go through my mind - is check/folding an option on the river? People on this forum don't like to give up, but I feel like there's gotta be better spots to earn money than hands like these.

Next question - why such a big bet on the turn when you're trying to see another card as cheaply as possible and the board hits his 3bet range? If he's going to fold to a $625 bet, wouldn't he fold to a $425 bet?

I don't know what to do, but as an outside observer, that's what came to mind. Will be curious to hear how others approach.

I don't really like playing oop in 3 bet pots with hands like this so I would've folded pf to the 3bet.

Vs a guy who doesn't like to fold and I have an aggro image I think I mostly check the turn as he's likely to check back or bet something like half pot which I can just call.

Also he'll be really confused when he checks back turn and the river is a 7 and we blast big.

Once I overbet turn and get called I'm just giving up on river and losing to his KK/QQ because I don't really think he's folding often enough.

This V is rhe GOAT for jamming AQ in that previous hand. Slow clap.

Here, I dunno. I hate to check to a guy like this, but there isn't much we can get value from, and he doesn't seem to want to fold. MAYBE we can block-bet here, and fold to a raise.

I'm also cool with just check-folding here.

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I'm check folding or check calling but would need a lot of hours with V to know which. My guess is it goes x x and you lose to QQ KK a bit. I think leading reps too thin.

I think vs a 4x 3bet oop this is a fold unless V is an absolute drooler which doesnt seem to be the case.

I personally would check turn , try to realize our equity.

As played i’d give up river vs rec who called turn overbet

Interestingly i plugged this, solver likes turn overbet and jams the river always.

It's not the same playing in position vs out of position. In position it makes more sense to check back a lot of flush draws. When we are in position and we bet and then get jammed on, that is when we don't realize our equity. We also face the prospect of calling a bet that makes our hand unprofitable in terms of odds and we don't get to benefit from fold equity.

Overbet is a size that targets exactly his hands like KK, QQ, TT. I think Ax is going to want to bet the flop a lot with the flush draws out there. And sets won't slow play often from a rec when the flush draws are out there. I can have really strong hands on the turn like AJs, JJ, 77, even AK or AQ are pretty nutted after flop action. Villain is forced to call down lighter or overfold, and then river gives him some tough decisions.

Also, the turn is super wet. Two flush draws and tons of straight draws /combo draws. This is exactly the kind of texture where we want to use overbets.

For those of you worried that we get called on river by KK, QQ, what if we jam the river for ~1.5x pot?

But you were the one saying he's not afraid to hero. And you have an aggro pro image.

That weighs into it, but I think everyone has their limits.

Think about what you're trying to rep, in relation to what you're trying to fold out, and ask if your line is consistent with what you're repping.

Are you trying to rep a strong AX, or KQss/KQdd that rivered a straight?

The challenge I would have jamming river here is that when we over-bet turn, it looks like we were repping a strong AX type holding that was slow-played on the flop, like AQ, or maybe AJ, possibly AT or A5.

Some of those hands might be a 4B pre sometimes, and while you might never donk lead the flop with any of them, he might not know that, and he might donk if the positions were reversed.

What if V has AA, or some AX combo, like AT?

Either way, AX might not jam this river, when KQss/KQdd gets there.

If you're trying to rep KQss/KQdd - V could have KQss/KQdd here, when he checks back on flop and calls turn. If he has KK/QQ, he may be less likely to believe you have KQ, especially if he has spades or diamonds, or worse, both spades and diamonds. Regardless, he might not believe you'd over-bet turn with KQ.

If you wanted to rep AX here, I could see checking flop, and then over-betting turn, but once you get called, jamming 1.5x pot on river with 4th pair against this sort of V seems suicidal. He's got too much gamble in him, and might get stubborn with whatever he has. If he's even halfway capable of thinking through the above, our bluff is way too risky. I would rather give up and wait for a better spot.

I like the river bet - you're uncapped, he's capped, you can have KQ, I don't think he can. I'm not thrilled both fd's missed but what can he really have here? A7/AT really the top of his range - QQ/KK/Jx can't call this. I don't know what he thinks of an overbet from you vs 3/4 pot bet - that's certainly interesting.

What happened in the hand to make hero uncapped and V capped? Why can't V have KQ? Or AA? or AJ? Or JJ? Or JT?

If we're giving V KK and QQ, what if he has KsKd or QsQd, blocking KQss/KQdd?

OP said this guy called down with bottom pair when a flush draw bricked out, and he just saw hero bluff a bunch of money in a recent hand. Are we sure V isn't calling here with KK/QQ, AT/A7, JT, or possibly just Ax, maybe even Jx?

Villain having KQ would be surprising since they'd have to call that turn overbet with a gutshot and tenuous pair outs, and we might think the suited KQ combos with flush draw would have c-bet the flop.

Your hand history shows hero giving up after putting in 1/3 stack so id expect villain to try that move again with or without a hand. But what do they have left that you beat? Doesn't seem like c/c is an option.

We can have JJ/55 here, villain isn't checking back flop with 55+/AJ. You think the villain is checking back AA on this flop? I think KQ bets this flop and if not won't call that big of a bet on the turn outside of KQss, but that hand bets the flop. Could he call with KK/QQ/etc? Sure, but we can't just assume he never folds any of his range.

Think the biggest issue in this hand starts with the preflop action. HJ vs CO 3b in this dynamic about 145bb effective our range here should be very tight when we defend this 3b. Now we also have to realize that with a straddle and a double straddle in play this is more like utg vs lj 3b because we have two extra players in the blinds who still have action so your opponent might consider that when deciding which hands to 3bet. Especially vs a 4x 3bet calling with these middling SC will be losing heavily and since this player is a recreational I think it's safe to assume this 3bet range will likely be very very strong with maybe a few random bluffs in there. I would use AK, a few suited broadways, pocket pairs for set mining with the occasional AA trap facing this 3bet at this depth, plus throw in like A5s A4s because those hands have pretty decent equity and can implied odds this deep. Mixing in low frequency 76s 65s 54s if you feel it's absolutely necessary but I just choose not to include these when I play live because the 3bet ranges were facing are just way too strong to justify it.

As played I don't like our decision to polarize pair plus FD on the turn. I would actually go for the check raise with this combo if we face a bet on the smaller side and check call vs bets on the larger side. I would favor betting the turn with the combo draws that have the least sdv because these hands have a harder time check calling turn OOP. When we polarize the turn we're saying we either have TPTK or better as value OR we have hands that can never win at showdown on brick rivers.

Again as played based on the line you've taken up to the river I would lean more towards the side of exploit and say that live players esp recreational ones tend to make up their mind on the turn facing big bets like these. Not too much has changed on this board and we don't block the straight that we should be most concerned about which is KQ so I would just give up. Blocking 98s is irrelevant so if youre looking for bluffs to unload the clip on the river with I would say QTss QTdd KTss KTdd are probably enough to balance the times where we have straights and sets. Your opponent should still retain a few trap hands like AA AJ plus hands like KQdd KQss and even ATs which make for pretty easy calls on the river facing this line. Only time I would unload the clip in this manner would be when I know my opponent basically never has a calling hand due to some observations about their betting patterns etc. Sounds like your opponent is one whos willing to make big calls on the lighter side which pushes me even more towards giving up on the river.

You can see now how blocking the ten and the straight will be double beneficial on the river when we decide to bluff. Didn't think TT would call the turn bet, looks like you've run into an especially sticky player. Best not to put these type of players to the test because they obviously don't care too much about money so we're actually making them play better by trying to find balance with river bluffs.

Nothing wrong with a failed bluff attempt though, this is going to happen infinite times if you play for a living. I can say for a fact that these will be the best learning experiences you'll likely have. And the fact that you have the ability to stick thousands of dollars into the pot on the river as a bluff already puts you miles ahead of majority of regs that play for a living.

As a side note I remember the first time I bluffed river for more than 5k it took my opponent a total of 5 seconds to call, not a worse feeling in the world haha, but I think this hand I played was one of the best learning experiences for me.

I wouldn't expect V to have TT when he calls the big turn bet, with two overs on board. That is super-sticky. When he calls the turn, I was expecting him to at least have Ax or Jx.

The fact that he tank/sigh-called just shows how little thinking he's doing throughout the hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but if he's calling with 3rd pair, and then improves to a set, he should just be snap-calling, I'd think.

I fold pre twice

Just played first hand of the table with this same guy. 2/5/10 hero is on the T with KK, 6 handed. Villain opens 40, short stack rec jams 310. Hero jams 2k (same stack as villain). Villain calls with A7s. Scoop 2 runouts. The hell lol.

Definitely not going to plan on bluffing this guy.

What is the T in "hero is on the T"?

Curious why you decided to jam $2k over $310 instead of maybe making it $650-$700. Without knowing this loon is apparently calling with any suited ace, I'd think you could only get called by AA, AK, and occasionally KK/QQ/JJ.

Not that it matters to the pre-flop play, only out of curiosity - who scooped 2 runouts, you or V?

Like I said in an earlier post, this guy has way too much gamble in him, if he's calling off 2K re-jams with A7s, jamming AQ on busted flush draw boards, calling with bottom pair on a paired board, and sticking around with TT in the hand from your OP.

We just need to actually have a strong hand when we're facing this guy (not that KK isn't strong enough). The nice thing is that he seems willing to call super-light and willing to bluff with hands that don't make a ton of sense. You should get paid when you have it, one way or the other.

I was in the 10 straddle. If I were to pop it to 600, then the pot If he called would be 1,515 and our stack would be 1,400, so I thought I might as well jam. I think a hand like AK would like the fold equity of jamming and I think you want to balance that with strong hands as well.

I scooped the runouts.

I have not played a ton with villain but after seeing his Olay these last too sessions I have a much better idea of how he plays.

Gotta love opponents like this. I want to get their address so I can send them a Christmas card.

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