Dipped a toe in 2/5 and a fat value fish jumped on my boat.

Dipped a toe in 2/5 and a fat value fish jumped on my boat.

2/5 NLHE, 9 handed

V - complete unknown late 20s early 30s white guy. He seems to be somewhat known to the other regs from home games. 1.3kish$. LJ.

H - just sat down and some Vs know me and V in this hand doesnt. Image to the people that know me is weak tight player that occaisionally tilt spazzes. 1k$ eff. HJ.

CO is a drooler, BTN is a good TAG, bad LAG in the blinds.

---

Folds to V who opens to 15, H calls next to act with K 9, HU.

aside: too wide? what are you doing if BTN 3! here? what if LAG in blinds 3bets?, what should my continuing range be here if TAG on BTN vs LAG in blinds squeezes assuming original V folds? What hands can take a call-call line pre? is K9s one of them? Table is all around 1k.

Flop (30) - 9 9 3

V bets 20, H raises to 85, V calls

Turn (200) - K

V checks, H checks back (I'm thinking he just cant call much here with hands like TT-QQ)

River (200) - 7

V checks, Hero bets 105.

Thoughts?

20 January 2024 at 09:00 AM
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17 Replies



by Stupidbanana k

. Image to the people that know me is weak tight player that occaisionally tilt spazzes.

This did make me laugh - having some self awareness is always good!

Preflop is a little wide but not outrageous (but I'm not going call-call with it).

Your hand doesn't need much protection so I would probably just call the flop and go from there.


by Stupidbanana k

2/5 NLHE, 9 handed

V - complete unknown late 20s early 30s white guy. He seems to be somewhat known to the other regs from home games. 1.3kish$. LJ.

H - just sat down and some Vs know me and V in this hand doesnt. Image to the people that know me is weak tight player that occaisionally tilt spazzes. 1k$ eff. HJ.

CO is a drooler, BTN is a good TAG, bad LAG in the blinds.

---

Folds to V who opens to 15, H calls next to act with K 9, HU.

aside: too wide? what are you doing if BTN 3! here? what if LAG in

I'd bet turn for roughly 2/3rds pot. On flop he called your raise which was proportionally larger. If he folds we were unlikely to be paid on the river anyway but our best chance for a big pot is to bet this all 3 streets.


I fold preflop against an unknown opponent. Without knowing how to exploit villain post flop it's hard to make enough money to justify the call.
If hero gets 3 bet with what looks like a squeeze it is very situational but in this one K9s is a bad hand to play. It's does badly against a 3 betting value range.
If your going to check the turn you are better off flat calling flop and betting/raising turn. The raise flop/check turn line is polarizing and you don't know how villain will respond. This is the problem with playing an unknown and I'm more likely to go for simple value.


I would 3bet if I choose to vpip here. Not a fan of calling with the people described behind as you're going to get squeezed fairly often and have to fold.

I don't think I would have any flats here in the HJ vs opens.

If I absolutely had to pick hands that call call I guess ATs, AJs, 77-99.


I am not a fan of the call preflop or the turn check. Checking the turn makes some sense if you didn’t boat up, but since you did, I think you should be optimistic and bet to set up a river shove.


Pre is too wide unless you love dogs as much as I do, and then it's fine 😉

I'd bet the turn. Checking looks almost stronger than betting once you 3bet the flop (that was a little big). Even if checking looks weak, we 3bet flop and should continue once checked to on turn. Get money in there if you can.

River is fine.


Ok thanks everyone. I thought I could induce a river lead by checking back turn and then raise river but no luck.

Result: he called river and mucked


Raising flop seems the worst action. Would assume you almost always have QQ crushed on the flop without a lot more info.

Then checking on the K is sus, assuming you have some bluffs on the flop they'd be BDstr8/BDFD type hands and so this is an ok card to keep barrelling.

Pre/river is w/e. Can maybe go a bit bigger on river hoping AA sigh calls a bit more. Not sure QQ can call even half pot, but who knows.


by Stupidbanana k

Ok thanks everyone. I thought I could induce a river lead by checking back turn and then raise river but no luck.

Result: he called river and mucked

Maybe checking the turn "worked." However, if he called river he probably would have called turn and then maybe a "same bet" or ~$150 on river.


With rake this is mainly a fold pre, once in a while you can 3bet. On the button vs LJ raise our hand becomes more of a 3bet or call, but with more players in position to us left to act, our hand is too weak.

Exploitatively I think your line is fine, but I think you can size up the river more, like ~150.

On the flop we don't really need to raise this dry texture and when we do, we don't need to go so big after villain already bet 2/3 pot. The hands you beat are so far behind and you are telegraphing to the world you have a 9. Maybe contributes to why you have a weak tight image? On top of that, you are in position. You can put money in on later streets.


Yeah, preflop is the way most 2/5 and lower players play, but generally bad.

The whole purpose of raising the flop should be to get 4 bets and stacks or close in post flop. You have to try to get the money in. You are in position, so hard to induce by checking.


PRE - if the players behind are 3B-happy, I'd probably fold K9s facing a MP raise. Otherwise, it's probably too wide, but not egregious.

FLOP - I wouldn't raise when it's a rainbow / paired board. What are you repping here, other than a 9, when you didn't 3B pre? I wouldn't think you have over-pairs, or 33. You either have 9x or pure air.

TURN - If we just called flop, and V bets again, now we can raise, to rep a weak Kx or flush draw. As played, when V checks, I think we can bet small, 1/3 pot, and hope he x/r's with Kx or a flush draw.

RIVER - If we just called flop and raised turn, we could over-bet the river. As played, I can't think of what hands he has that are going to call a big river bet. I might bet super-small, like $50, hoping to induce a spaz check-raise bluff.


I don't like the turn check back. People are just not going to be randomly blasting off after you raised the flop just because you checked the turn.

Maybe sometimes with the right villain but players if they have anything to call with I think players tend to proceed cautiously the rest of the hand no matter what you do thereafter.

So just make a 1/3-1/2 pot bet to build a pot for yourself on the river.


by Mr Spyutastic k

I would 3bet if I choose to vpip here. Not a fan of calling with the people described behind as you're going to get squeezed fairly often and have to fold.

I don't think I would have any flats here in the HJ vs opens.

If I absolutely had to pick hands that call call I guess ATs, AJs, 77-99.

22-66, are these folds or mixed between folding/3betting pre? I get this strategy online, wondering if good players are doing minimal calling with their combos from up to hj in live poker as well. I'm assuming your calling increases in co, bu and bb.

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by Balerion1 k

22-66, are these folds or mixed between folding/3betting pre? I get this strategy online, wondering if good players are doing minimal calling with their combos from up to hj in live poker as well. I'm assuming your calling increases in co, bu and bb.

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I think you can get away with it in some games where you have a lot of bad players post and more passive play pf.

But in tougher games where people squeeze and 3bet w/ more optimal ranges you can't flat profitably from this position with those hands.


by Mr Spyutastic k

I think you can get away with it in some games where you have a lot of bad players post and more passive play pf.

But in tougher games where people squeeze and 3bet w/ more optimal ranges you can't flat profitably from this position with those hands.

Fair point.

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yeah i mean honestly i think every street except flop is misplayed fairly significantly.

pre can be ok if you have a large skill edge on the table and good reads that the table is passive, here you have neither.
flop is good, i guess you could very occasionally balance with a flat but idk why you would ever do that vs an unknown at 2/5
checking turn to get a lead on the river doesn't make much sense to me. he b/c the flop, you should assume he has show down value and isn't going for some weird reverse float oop vs an unknown. id bet turn as u rep extremely polarized and you have a hand you want to get the money in with.
given that you checked the turn betting small on the river doesnt seem great- he has a bluff catcher and you are repping a polar range / nothing (from line) tbh.

to summarize pre is pretty bad and you should look at pre ranges. as you get better and more comfortable you can get looser but i dont really think you should do that while trying to move up against unknowns, especially with people who seem likely to sqz otb and in the blinds from descriptions. if you want to flat this sort of hand vs an open at least do it on the button.
post you have a really good hand while repping an insanely narrow range of hands that beat an overpair, put a ton of money into the pot. levelling yourself with weird reasons is just going to cost you ev.

fwiw your line is taken some amount of the time by a solver but i think doing this is an egregious error vs random live people. it just takes a really random parlay of player attributes for this to outperform just trying to put your stack in imo.

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