Looking for opinions about a few less ridiculous 2/5 hands
After posting two or three ridiculous hands I played, and getting a little beaten up for how badly I played them, I said I'd try to post some less stupid ones.
Being a man of my word, there were three big hands from last session, where some of the decision points seem debatable, and I'd like to get the crowd's opinions.
2/5. $1k max. 9 handed.
Hero is a 50's WG, playing fairly TAG with occasional LAG adventures. Mostly showing down good hands or getting bluffs through without any real resistance. This was a fairly tough table, but hero was well situated with weaker players to his immediate right, and a calling station on his immediate left.
H1 - Main V in BB is a MAWG. The table only recently opened, so I didn't have much of a read on him, other than he seemed to be playing fairly tight, ABC style poker. We both started the hand around $1k.
Pre - UTG opens to $20, 2 calls, it gets to hero in the CO with 55dh. Hero calls. BTN, SB and V in BB all call. $140 in pot after rake.
Flop - Q82r. Checks to hero, who figures no one is likely to have much of a hand, so hero bets $30. Folds to V in BB, who calls. Everyone else folds. $200 in pot.
Turn - Q82 5, now adding a BDFD. V checks. Hero bets $130. V calls. $460.
River - Q825 low-middling offsuit brick, doesn't complete any obvious / likely draws. V checks.
Hero?
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H2 -
V1 / UTG is a late-20's / early 30's WG with throat tatoos, headphones, and a flashy Rolex. Played with him once before. He's very aggro, never limping, and frequently 3B'ing, maybe a little too frequently.
V2 / HJ is a MAWG playing fairly tight / ABC poker on hero's right.
Both V's have around $1k to start the hand. Hero in CO is around $1500.
Pre - V1 opens to $25 UTG. 2 calls, V2 in HJ calls, hero in CO calls with KdQc. BTN and blinds fold. $125 after rake.
Flop - Q-high with two low-middling disconnected cards, rainbow. Don't remember the exact cards. It checks around.
Turn - another low-middling card, but a club, adding a BDFD, but otherwise a total brick. Checks to V2 in HJ who bets $75. Hero min-clicks it to $150. V1 / UTG 3B's to $400, leaving himself about $550 behind. Everyone folds back to hero.
Hero?
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H3 - Main V is a MAAG, playing pretty solid. Haven't seen him get out of line at all. Started the hand around $1500. Hero has around $2500. There are a lot of details about this hand I don't clearly remember. Sorry for the ambiguity here...
Pre - folds to hero in MP/LP, who raises to $25 with JhJd. Next to act is a calling station, so he calls. V1 on his immediate left also calls. Everyone else folds. $75 after rake.
Flop - QJ4tt. Don't remember the suits. Hero bets $50. Both call. $225.
Turn - Qx. Hero bets $135. Next to act folds. V1 calls. $495.
River - low-middling card. Can't remember if the flush came in on turn or river, or if there were four flush cards on board.
Hero?
Bet
Bet flop, now fold
Bet
H1 - bets $250. Our value targets are thin
H2 is a wreck. Fold pre. Bet flop. Minclick is terrible. Fold now.
H3 - flop ok but could even go a bit bigger. Bigger on turn. Overbet river. Making middle set unblocking top pair on a wet board when we fill up is like the dream money shoveling scenario.
H1: Bet as much as you think he will call.
H2: Gross. Fold pre, bet flop, call flop (don't raise!), fold now.
H3: Bet as much as you think he will call.
H2. Awful not to bet TPGK in position on the flop. Wtf with the minclick?
H3, that is great for you with the boat and the 3-flush and then 4-flush on the board. Bet big.
Grunh:
Hand 1 is a pure check back on the flop. No idea why we're betting. AP, bet bigger on the turn and jam river
Hand 2 I'm betting flop AP, no idea why we're clicking back turn.
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Weird to bet 55 on a dry Q high flop but not bet KQ.
H2 I don't mind calling in the cutoff but it is a thin path to victory, made thinner when you give the world a free turn card.
H2. Awful not to bet TPGK in position on the flop. Wtf with the minclick?
H3, that is great for you with the boat and the 3-flush and then 4-flush on the board. Bet big.
I was somewhat expecting people to zero in on H2 as being the most controversial, starting with my check-back on flop and my min-click on turn.
My reasoning for checking back flop was something like - my hand is decently strong, but V1 could be range-checking OOP as the PFR in a multi-way pot, planning to x/r if anyone bets, especially me, as he seemed to be raising my bets more than other people's, and he likely had me pegged as a TAG who would stab (true) but over-fold to big raises (also true).
I didn't think it made sense to bet-fold or bet-call vs a check-raise on the flop, and there weren't any obvious draws on board to worry about, so I decided to check-back, with a plan to call if he bet flop and it folded to me, or fold if he bet and anyone called.
When V1 checks turn on the 2nd club, I figured he's either got air and would fold to a bet, or maybe picked up the flush draw. When V2 bet, I figured he either had top pair, or also picked up the flush draw.
I thought it was possible that V2 might have AQo, but thought some other Qx was more likely, and my KQ could be better than his Qx, or I could push him off a chop by raising here, or just buy a cheap river, expecting him to just call and check river.
With the Qc in my hand, no one can have TP and the flush draw, so I wasn't too worried about someone having a lot more equity here. I really just wanted to fold out the other players and get HU / IP with V2, without unnecessarily bloating the pot. My plan was to fold if V2 re-raised, or check-back river if he called / checked.
As it happens, after the hand, V2 told me he did in fact fold AQo, and he was planning to call before V1 re-raised, so I think my min-click was a good play against him.
For H2 I would consider 3betting an aggro open with KQo and tons of dead money in the pot. But the fact that it’s 5x UTG leans me to fold. Both are better than flatting.
“After previously posting hands I butchered and still defended my play against consensus, I will now post “less ridiculous hands” but still write a book on why my actions make more sense than consensus responses in a results-oriented fashion”
Your threads are exhausting.
Sorry, I should have mentioned in my OP - in H2, V1 was tilted, having just lost a big pot when he got stacks in set-over-set.
“After previously posting hands I butchered and still defended my play against consensus, I will now post “less ridiculous hands” but still write a book on why my actions make more sense than consensus responses in a results-oriented fashion”
Your threads are exhausting.
Deuceblocker asked why I min-clicked the turn. I was answering him.
Not sure how to explain why I did something without explaining why I did something.
I think you can justify calling with KQo in the 2nd one, if you think people are opening with many worse kings/queens. If that's true, you HAVE to bet the flop. Otherwise it's a preflop fold.
H1 seems like a good call preflop in position 4-way against loose 2/5 players. I wouldn't call an UTG raise HU with KQo. Flop check in position is weird.
Hand 1 and 3 are pot bets, or maybe less if you think someone is particularly weak. Can’t go wrong w pot.
Hand 2, 3b to $150 or something seems ideal route but I can understand just calling. Folding seems way too tight given his description of table and position.
If you are just going to call, have to bang the flop. I understand the hindsight of the AQ read but you would be put to the same test cheaper by bet-fold flop.
By time we get to turn, I’m just calling, not raising. As played, it’s a sigh fold.
h1 stab is pretty ambitious / likely losing esp with btn still to act. turn size too small. river overbet probably gets way too many folds out of qx so id bet somewhere between 75% and pot
h2 fold or 3b pre, turn raise is too small if you want to raise here (i think u get more value out of your hand by just calling but can punish depolarized stabs / protect your hand if u decide to raise), probably fold vs cold 3b ott
h3 pretty hard to analyze as u dont know what the board is lol, would look to x flop or turn a fairly large amount of the time but betting is ok too
youre like way over thinking things in most of these hands u post
also, should post one hh per thread and if u dont remember the runout make one up that fits the criteria u describe. both of those make responding much easier imo
Poker is a thinking person's game, so they say.
Somewhat surprised everyone is saying to fold turn in H2. I should have remembered to include the info that V1 was tilted to start the hand, having just gotten stacks in and losing with middle set vs top set. He re-loaded not long before this hand.
Turn spoiler on H2:
Spoiler
Hero calls. Pot $1150.
River is a brick. V1 jams for about $550. Pot $1700.
Hero?
Everyone screams "FOLD" in unison in 3...2...
Maybe you were good in H2 and induced bluffs with your weird line, checking back the flop in position multiway and min-clicking the turn on an apparent blank.
V1 is tilted and you called his raise. The only reason to call his raise is because you think he is tilted and you want him to shove so you can snap him off, so do it.
dunno man. you want to make every hand an adventure but poker is a pretty simple game
Sorry, I should have mentioned in my OP - in H2, V1 was tilted, having just lost a big pot when he got stacks in set-over-set.
We are also playing against 3 other players... So it's quite a parlay to expect a, no one draws out, b, someone else will bet, c, the pfr will spaz 3b the turn, d, the other player will fold the winner, and e your hand is good at showdown...
Unless you've got a Dr degree in chaos theory there's no reason to expect this all works out so nicely...
The more straightforward thing is bet flop, and then maybe calldown vs the tilting pfr
H1 I either overbet turn and check back river or go about half pot on each.
H2 I fold without seeing the exact cards. x/raising two people is nutted.
H3 I bet about 200 OTR, just small enough for a weak Q to call. I go larger OTT.
Reveal time.
H1 - When V flat calls hero's flop and turn bets, hero's putting him on some moderate strength QX, or possibly Q8/Q2s that doesn't want to raise hero off his bluffs or worse QX/8x. Maybe he shows up with 88 and we just lose a bunch of money. Hero thinks QX and Q2s will probably call a pot-sized bet, but Q8 might raise if hero goes smaller, around 1/2-2/3 pot.
Something about how he was a little slow to call made me think he might have been contemplating a raise, so hero splits the baby and bets $350, sort of hoping for a raise, praying he doesn't have 88.
Spoiler
V tanks for 20-30 seconds, then calls. Hero rolls over 55. V mucks without showing, muttering something about hero getting there on the turn, making me think he might have had Q8s or KQo. I probably lost some value not betting pot or over-betting.
H2 - Hero thinks V2 probably would have v-bet AQ on the flop, and is now betting KQ or QJ for value and protection. V1 being tilted from just recently losing set-over-set, hero thinks he's opening too wide UTG, and isn't likely to check flop and turn with AA, KK, QQ, AQ, or KQ when the BDFD appears.
More likely, he picked up a flush draw, or is turning some worse 1P like JJ into a bluff, or has total air, and is raising because hero's min-click looks weak / fishy / bluffy and hero will fold to his raise. Hero's planning to fold river if V1 jams on a club, or check-back, but otherwise call a jam on a brick. So hero calls.
Spoiler
V1 turns over K3cc for a busted flush draw. Hero shows KQ, and V1 storms off.
H3 - Sorry, I messed up on the starting stack sizes. I remember V still having around $1500 behind going to the river, and I wanted all of it. He must have started the hand with $1750-$1800.
I thought about over-betting, but didn't think he'd raise with a flush or trip Q's, and might even find a fold with trips. Eventually I pushed out $325, hoping it looked like a block bet with a weak flush, trip Q's, or possibly AA/KK.
V tanks for 10-15 seconds, then raises to $750. Hero counts to 10, then jams, praying V doesn't have QJ. V tanks for 5-10 seconds, then calls.
Spoiler
V turns over 44 for bottom boat. Hero scoops. Just a cooler for V.
That was the last big hand. Hero picked up not long after, up $2300 on the session, down from a high water mark of being up a little over $3k.
