QQ Overpair 3-Way in 4Bet-Pot vs. Nitty / Tight Players
Played for ~2h. Players unknown before.
Villain: 70ish, limped occasionally but raised rarely, never 3/4-bet before, check-folded multiple times in good cbet spots, saw him in big pots only with big hands (eg, sets)
Hero: mid 40, probably tight image
UTG1: 35-45, tight, rarely involved in big pots
[hand_history]
NL1/2 - 8 players, effective stacks ~470
Pre Flop: (pot: 3) Hero has Q♠ Q♥
UTG1 straddles 5, Villain (LJ) min-raises 10, HJ calls, Hero (CO) 3bets 40, UTG1 cold calls, Villain 4bets 100, HJ folds, Hero and UTG1 call
Flop: (pot 313, 3 players, eff. stack~370) T♣ 8♥ 7♠
UTG1 check, Villain bets 150, Hero ?
[/hand_history]
Pre: Putting Villain on a tight range (QQ+, AK). Hoped UTG1 would fold. After calling I put him on TT-QQ,AK, perhaps some AQ.
Flop: I’m quite unhappy here despite overpair. Hoped Villain would miss and check (see history). I think he’s betting only a few of his AK. UTG1 to act behind and he has even a set in his range.
How do you play this hand on the flop or pre?
13 Replies
I get the price is awesome pre - but 70 year old tight guy 4-bet range is AA/KK mostly, with little AK in there, so I think fold
Flop: As played. Again great price, but I think we have to let this go. If he had AK in his range to begin with, he might well be checking flop some percentage of time anyway.
It’s 1/2 u can mostly fold both times whether he’s 70 or 21 yrs old
Preflop I call the minraise rather then reraise because it's AA/KK a lot. We are getting good odds to set mine but already need to be considering folding. When you 3 bet and villain 4 bets just fold, your not getting the odds to stick around any more and villain is making it clear they intend to play for stacks.
On the flop just fold. One advantage of keeping the pot small preflop is you can call one bet and see if villain will continue on turn but for $150 it isn't worth it. Your risking way too much to find out if villain has a few AK hands in their range.
You are likely losing to both players. Don't shocked if its AA vs KK here. The new nit-reg book is out and it says to cold call a 3-bet with AA and just flat a 4 bet.
Also, pre, this may be a fold as you are basically set-mining against most 1/2 players and especially against this one.
V has AA 90% and KK 10%. Most OMCs won't 4B without AA. Even with KK, they want to make sure the flop doesn't have an A.
Initial 3bet is fine. Don't make wild deviations from standard preflop after only two hours of play because someone has a few wrinkles. Plus there is dead money and you want this heads up. I might go a touch larger but whatever.
That said, if your read on this guy is that he's very tight preflop then the 4bet is concerning. You're getting a price and will have position regardless of what the straddle does, and you can reasonably assume that you'll get LJ stack if you hit your set, but it's not ideal. It's probably close. I'd rather be deeper to call.
What's not close is the flop. In addition to your preflop read, you've said that this guy passes up standard cbet opportunities. That vastly reduces the chances of AK. In addition, the flop smashes the straddle's cold-calling range, he can easily have a set here. This is now a straightforward fold.
Many thanks, guys, for the valuable input! I agree I should have considered folding pre already.
Spoiler
I folded on the flop but feeling quite bad about it. UTG1 called. Villain shoved on the turn on a brick and UTG1 called again. Villain showed Aces and UTG1 pocket tens for a set.
Yeah it sucks but you probably just fold QQ pre, extremely exploitatively
Yeah, just fold to the 4bet, this isn't AK, he induced by min-raising then he went nuts vs a 3bet. We only beat jacks or worse and these types of guys wouldn't be doing it with less than kings.
Food pre or set mine seem OK. Shrug fold flop. Sucks but it happens.
I think your 3B pre is fine, but we should fold to the 4B. Flop is a pure fold, I think.
You have to fold pf, you need > 9:1 implied odds to to continue after factoring in direct pot odds. Minimum remaining stack depth to continue (calling 60) is (adjusting for safety factor of not always stacking) is 600.
Clear fold otf.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
