1/3 NL - preflop spot shortstacked with KQo
Not sure if I'm being results oriented with this one or not, but this hand from last session irked me.
Weirdly awesome Saturday afternoon table where oddly I hardly know anyone and it is quite clear everyone else is horrendous.
V1 has whittled his stack down to lol $30. He had previously open shoved a micro-stack into the world preflop with A7o. He's in double-up-or-go-home mode.
V2 is and older super passive calling station but on the tighter side preflop. HH1 he flats an open to $15 and a call with QQ and a $175 stack. HH2 he overlimps KK in the CO, sees Button raise to $15, I limp/reraise my AA to $50, he flats again, 3ways to AJ3ss I $50 into $150, he calls, Jr turn, I shove $125 into $250, he calls, I declare "fullhouse" and he says "that's what I'm going for too". Ok.
V3 is a young clueless scared money guy who is probably playing live for the first time. Just typical face-up ABC loose-ish passive.
Hero is unknown to all of these guys and probably doesn't have an image (even though I'm obviously playing very few hands).
Preflop (9 players):
V1 open shoves his $30 UTG. Typical open at this table is $15 - $20 so this is seen as a large raise.
Folds to V2 in CO who flats ($210).
V3 flats in the SB ($210).
Hero in the BB with KQo and covers.
Against well known loose action players and my known image I would jam here. But kinda not in love with that with V2 (and maybe even V3) calling $30 preflop.
Never in love with putting 1/7th of my stack in preflop just flatting. But closing the action and keeping in dominated hands which I'll obviously stack hitting TP in an SPR lol 1.5 pot getting about 10:1 IO (although with some RIO too) as well as knowing I'll often get to the turn and river (as no one is betting until they hit TP+)?
Course the nit in me just wants to fold. Is that perfectly fine?
GcluelessNLnoobG
@ doc
In a typical line-up (known regs who are aware of my nit image and who are mostly 3bet isolating better albeit occasionally tarping) I'd typically shove here (although KQo is the bottom of my range).
I donked the flop / shoved the turn because I 100% believe I'm getting paid off by worse (also noting I'm never folding TP2K in an SPR 1.5 pot against these guys). The KK guy called it off postflop on a A high board, I think I'm getting at least one bet (and sometimes all of it) against JJ- and worse TP / draws, and more-or-less ditto for other guy. I would not expect any of this to happen versus known regs... which is why I deviated here.
Wasn't 100% convinced the IO vs RIO aren't close-ish and I just ran into top-of-range... but I should never be surprised I run into top-of-range where AK/AQ/etc. are clearly drawing hands. So totally on board with the fold pre consensus (which is my usual m.o.).
Gnotplayingnittyenough,that'swhatI'vealwaysfiguredG
FWIW, I see people get married to big PP's in a way that doesn't really happen with weakish top pairs. The guy who goes broke with KK on an ace-high board isn't necessarily going broke with QJ on a Q-high board. I think these guys have a hard time differentiating between absolute strength and relative strength, often getting it backwards.
You said V2 flatted QQ and over-limped KK in the CO in previous hands. If so, he could show up with better than KQ here.
But what would worry me is when V3 calls our flop donk. You said he's "clueless scared money". I'd think we'd have to consider if he 3B's AQ pre (maybe not, if he's scared money), or calls flop with worse than KQ (again, maybe not, because scared money).
If you think either V is getting in there with worse than KQ, why not check, to let them stab with those hands, rather than donk, and fold out a lot of their worse hands?
Your line post-flop just seems uncharacteristically aggro for you. I'm pretty sure I'm way more aggro generally, but I would prefer a more defensive line here.
Postflop, just didn't think I could (or even should) be playing defensive at SPR 1.5, especially since I'm convinced these guys could easily pay off with worse (although also fully aware I also have the worst of it a decent amount of the time too).
GcluelessnittynoobG
1. This is part of why you do not call preflop—you have massive RIO with this kind of hand.
2. Maybe it did not occur to you, but when you come out firing on the flop, you are betting into a dry side pot. This is one of the times when even a fish can make a big (for them) laydown, making your RIO situation even worse.
I just fold, KQo isn't doing well against A7o no matter what everyone else has.
Would shove something like AJo+/ATs+/88+ maybe ATo/A9s/77 if feeling gambly.
Calling has all the downsides you'd think of, they can have any pair to crush us on Qxx ... also can be wide enough to have like Q9 on Q95. Also we are forced to not fold on JT5 and it's difficult on J95.
Looked at the reveal... would be happier with my play if I'd shoved AJo pre. and V3 was the only one who called.
It's not the end of the world for a one off hand, and almost nobody can play their A game all the time.
2. Maybe it did not occur to you, but when you come out firing on the flop, you are betting into a dry side pot. This is one of the times when even a fish can make a big (for them) laydown, making your RIO situation even worse.
My evaluation might be out-to-lunch, but based on KK's calldown on A high flop multiway, as well as other guys noobishness, I fully expect to stack worse TP plus sometimes even get some action (a street?) from underpairs. Definitely would not think this against well known semi-competent regs.
Gcluelessout-to-lunchnoobG
