Easy thread - tried something different
I’m eating run bad / play bad like never before in 20 years so trying some things differently trying to mix it up. I almost never l/rr preflop (only occasionally w/ JTs UTG).
V BTN $500 30’s WG. Usually maniacal pre and 80% maniacal post. Occasionally will shut down but most likely player to get into a huge pot drawing dead.
H SB $425 MAWG should have mixed image w/ V. V thinks H is decent player who mixes TAG / LAG. I tend to raise V a lot but to normal sizings.
Unremarkable $1/2 table.
OTTH
V BTN straddles for $5
H QQ completes for $5. V is most aggro player at table. H is 2nd most. Rest of table should start calling train once H doesn’t raise. V should attack the dead money. H then l/rr’s.
3 or 4 limps then V raises to $40. H stuffs it for $425.
A) this is idiotic
B) this is genius - nobody has ever thought of this before
C) other - please explain.
I agree with this. Just try to study and play good poker. Doing limp re-raises and other weird complicated stuff is just adding unnecessary complexity to your game in a way that generally isn't going to be winning you the most money anyways. We're losing value in the long run here by not just raising our QQ to a normal size.
If I interpreted OP's response correctly, he doesn't find 5way bloated SPR-handcuffing OOP pots having offered the world rather awesome IO with tricky players (I'm paraphrasing) nearly as awesome as you (or others) might. So why would he purposely put himself in that spot time after time?
Git'saquestionIaskedmyself,answeredhonestly,andthustweakedmystrategyaccordinglyG
There’s nothing to indicate villain is going to put in $425 pre after getting l/rr from the blinds which screams AA/KK. A maniac can’t be a maniac when you take away their ability to be the maniac by 10x shoving over their raise.
This would be a fine exploit with AK/AQ because you are expecting folds. It is absolutely not more EV than raising to a normal amount and playing postflop.
A maniac can’t be a maniac when you take away their ability to be the maniac by 10x shoving over their raise.
You don't think maniacs can maniacally call an overbet shove with trash? Why not?
Maniacs are not only maniacally aggressive. Sometimes they are maniacally gambooly. As I said above, depends on the maniac.
You don't think maniacs can maniacally call an overbet shove with trash? Why not?
Maniacs are not only maniacally aggressive. Sometimes they are maniacally gambooly. As I said above, depends on the maniac.
Yes, I’m in agreement and that’s kind of my point. Calling villain “maniacal” with no sample HH’s for context is about as worthless a read as it gets given a maniac is not a one size fits all archetype that always responds with X when we do W, or Z when we do Y.
Hero has obviously observed enough to confidently say “villain will call with a, b and c” (unclear if he meant a normal raise over the straddle or a l/rr all-in), but hasn’t provided any objective evidence to support the case for jamming $425 over $40. Is villain stuck? Is he drunk? Does he have a wad of $5k in his pocket to reload over and over or is he one and done? Does he get off on sucking out with trash knowing he’s eventually going home with empty pockets, or does he use aggression to bully the table while still playing serious/to win?
It’s just bizarre to me that l/rr AIPF is being discussed like it’s the only viable strategy to stack a maniac. It’s an overly simplistic exploit with a single decision tree for villain and a binary outcome: he either calls or folds pre.
We know nobody is raising at this passive table unless they have a preflop monster, so we’re hoping to get a couple limps plus a normalish sized raise from BTN. Hero said opening to $25 would result in a call train. Okay, open to $75 then. Now villain has decision #1 to make - call or raise (because he’s certainly defending his straddle with damn near ATC on the BTN).
If he raises our $75 and we jam, we probably get called by a wider range than what’s willing to call a $40 -> $475 jam.
If he calls we now have a second opportunity for villain to make mistakes. If villain has 33 and the flop comes T62r and we check it over - what do we think he’ll do? Well he’ll probably bet it to protect his equity vs. our overcards, and perhaps he’ll make a sizing mistake like betting $125 into $150 when a $50 bet would have accomplished the same thing. Now he’s pot committed himself and has a third opportunity to make a mistake calling our xr all-in as the pot is large, it’s not that much more, and he can’t bear the thought that he got bluffed by AK and needs to see the proof.
Given the entirely qualitative and anecdotal “read” on villain, I want to milk this villain and give him the rope at every possible turn to hang himself. If instead OP says this villain will call off $425 with T2s then obviously there’s nothing to discuss beyond “shove every equity advantage and embrace the variance.” But those villains are few and far between and l/rr jam does nothing to help you improve as a player in developing exploitative adjustments when encountering a similar but slightly less maniacal villain in the future.
C) I strongly suspect it makes sense to have a complete range when in the BB facing a BTN straddle. In which case, obviously you need a l/rr range. In which case, obviously you need a value l/rr range.
I suspect you don't need to go any wider than KK+/AKs (if that) in a 9-handed game, so QQ likely isn't a good hand choice except at very low frequency.
Almost certain shipping ~100bbs for ~10x with a mix of your lowest stackoff PPs and AK is good because this is recommended in basically every other spot where you're OOP to the raiser with players left to act. (But again, I suspect that's probably KK/AKs in these positions because it's QQ/AKo in LJvBTN).
Did I start enough sentences with "I suspect." I want a preflop solver and a machine powerful enough to do sims for 3-blind spots in 9-handed games sooooo bad ��
Can solvers do button straddles? It would be very interesting to see what adjustments a solver makes in the blinds.
This is like Sklansky's play from his book where he came in as the 5th limper in HJ with KK, expecting some maniac to raise. It got all sorts of flak in NVG and a CrushLivePoker video.
You don't think maniacs can maniacally call an overbet shove with trash? Why not?
Maniacs are not only maniacally aggressive. Sometimes they are maniacally gambooly. As I said above, depends on the maniac.
Several days before this I was sitting next to maniac at the table when I raised a straddler, straddler 3b shoved for $410 and H called. Flop KTX X X. Villain tables AJo and H mucks. Villain knows H is capable of shenanigans.
There are two sides to play bad/run bad….
