AQ in a 3-way pot on a QT8 board
5/5
UTG ($400) - Rec player. Joined a few orbits ago. Limping a lot.
SB ($225) - Fish. He made clueless bets of 1/4 and 1/6 pot size with A7 on a JTxxx board with absolutely nothing. He’s also capable of bluffing with missed draws, but he seems disciplined, folding even when his stack is very shallow.
BB ($700 effective) - Reg. I’ve seen him make a similar overcall with QJo.
UTG limps, Hero raises with A♦Q♣ to $25, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls
Flop($100) Q♥ T♥ 8♠
x x x, Hero bets $25, SB calls
Turn($150) T♦
SB(~$175 left), Hero checks(?)
River($150) 2♠
SB bets $30, Hero - ?
I b/f $100 on flop (obv not folding vs $225 stack), and shove every kinda blank turn vs the 2 shortstacks.
btw if op would have bet just $10 more on flop he could have shoved the turn for potsize, and wouldn't end up in such an akward spot.
This: So in the absence of better information, we go off population reads. That’s kind of the whole point of poker - to maximally exploit our opponents based on our current understanding of their play. Fishy players call too wide and are bad at calculating pot odds. So if I bet $50 on the flop and SB calls then I’d shove turn and get on with my life win or lose because it’s a mundane spot vs. a 45 BB stack I’ve seen a thousand times before.
Also, heaven forbid BB/UTG wakes up and raises to $100 - $125. Hmmmm, is he raising because he can beat AQ or because Hero looks weak and SB is a fish?
Dude no offense but you are writing paragraphs upon paragraphs that have no relevance to anything. We are responding to a specific hand vs. specific defined fishy villains (one of whom performed a Houdini and turned into a nit on a subsequent post by OP). Nobody is going to consult OP’s appendix from some other thread to further fine tune their response.
So in the absence of better information, we go off population reads. That’s kind of the whole point of poker - to maximally exploit
If a guy invested $10 to see a flop with QJo, that doesn't make him a fish. He’s a regular who plays very few hands, folding almost everything and playing tight for 5-6 orbits in a row, only raising with strong hands.
I don’t have enough information about the next player’s postflop tendencies. All I know is that he has played for a couple of orbits, and I’ve seen him limp pre. That makes him a fairly unknown fish.
So, we have a nit/reg, an unknown fish with a 400 stack (which isn’t short), and a reckless fish with a short stack.
So, the descriptions have changed, and I still want to bet $50 for all of the reasons mentioned. Get value when you can, make them pay for their draws, and don't let them bluff raise you because you act weak. Seriously, it all makes sense. I would often check/raise here with a lot of hands (QX, good draw, etc.) vs. a $25 bet with a short fish in there.
OP, nit/regs do not call a raise from the big blind with QJo. If they do, they are calling your $25 , but they're also calling your $50 bet.
BTW, in the linked hand, H called a raise with 45s from the BB knowing he was going to be heads up and OOP vs an unknown. If I'm a regular in that game, I'm going to pounce on his $25 bet, especially with the fish in there. If I don't have a hand to check/raise with, I'm floating $25 with almost anything that can hit.
Belleza, you frequently use the descriptor "fish," which is really just a condescending way of saying you don't respect their play.
Unfortunately, this doesn't actually help us to know how to play against these opponents.
Giving descriptions of actions and tendencies will help both you and the reader more than saying "fish" or "flashy dresser."
The goal posts have been continuously moved since the initial post. Like I don’t even know what the question is at this point - is it to fold, call or raise? I would be kicking myself all night if I got to the river in this fashion and then faced a $30 bet on the river. There’s nothing interesting about this hand.
