1/3 low suited connectors

I think this is a snap-shove, since you're hand isn't getting any better, and UTG has all of the sets in his range.

FWIW, I don't find myself in these spots because I rarely would 3! with low suited connectors over an UTG raiser and a nitty caller.

What's with the pissy little 3bet?

A lot of this now depends on whether you think UTG opens KQo, because your pissy little squeeze sure as hell isn't scaring him away. If the KQo is in there (it isn't a 4bet, it's a CR all in which happens to be a cold 3bet) then it's probably a fold, if you don't think he has many KQo then obviously call off.

I assume a typo so I won't get on my high horse but if "it's been a minute since I played a hand" is literally true then (a) this sounds a wild game or (b) you are a maniac. Either way 87s should be a low frequency squeeze against a UTG open

It's pretty close but I lean towards fold. If the 200 was an all in, I am okay calling, but we have an additional 268 behind which we are going to be pot committed for if we call. We don't have equity to call off if v's range is exactly sets and straights. They would need some weaker hands/semi bluffs, and I wouldn't weight them as being there often enough.

The way you are describing preflop you may want to consider a few things. Most of us are trying to have fun playing poker. We don't have to always play our best all of the time, and that's okay. Sometimes that buys us future action. But something to think about is that when you say, it's been a minute since you've played a hand and it seems to be a good time to get some action going, that's not a winning poker mentality.

You should have a plan for preflop and try to stick to it. We should mostly be mucking 87s in the CO pre facing an UTG raise and an MP call. If I am going to 3bet 87s, I am going to have a reason for doing it. If I am 3betting 87s, it is because I believe villain plays well enough to know my 3betting range is strong enough that he should actually fold some pretty strong hands like AQo from EP. If villain is a recreational player who is just going to call a 3b with KQo, we are building the pot for other people here, not for us. Just 3bet good hands with high cards, good suited AX and KX. Chances are the players you are playing are going to be the ones calling 3bets with KQo.

The other thing to think about preflop is that your 3bet size should be way bigger. Because you want them to fold preflop if you have 87s, and if you have AA, you want as much money to go into the pot as possible. Generally you want your 3bet sizes to be the same no matter ehat hand you have so they don't know if yiubhave AA or 87s. My go to rule is about 3.5x in position, 5x in position facing a raise and a call. Add 1x for each additional caller and 1x if you are out of position. And then for the most part, I always use those sizes when I 3bet. I would rather your 3b size be 35. 28 is the bare minimum imo, but iur squeeze size should be much larger even when in position.

So I would normally agree with the pissy 3! But as I said before there has not been a lot of action at the table the largest bet sizing was somewhere around 20$ I am not super deep here either. I believed that 45$ is either going to isolate the 15$ bet where he most likely has a pair or draw for diamonds and I want to get some equity out of my flopped straight.

On the other hand as much as I liked the flop I did not like the flop because I could be drawing dead to a better flopped straight or a drawing flush.

I ended up folding but got to see the hand play out fortunately. Utg also flopped a straight qk off with a king of hearts. MP called it off and jammed on the turn with aq of hearts and the turn came a Ks and river was a brick 2c they ended up chopping.

Also Mlark it may sound crazy but I did have a very good read on that table I ended chipping up to $1520 by the end of the session. I did not feel comfortable 3! To such a large size pre because I wasn't just trying to steal blinds.

My whole plan was to create action and continuation bet to the river and apply extreme pressure having position. The range i had my them on was pretty much on point after my tiny 3! And ended up saving me my stack.

Plus if you think about how timid the table was a 45$ bet was the biggest id seen bet in over an hour followed by an even bigger bet. I tend to love playing from late position in damn near a limped raise pot by re raising 2.5x and then getting paid huge on what looks deceptive when the hand connects.

fold preflop and avoid this bs

One other thing I should mention is my stack size play here according to a Johnathan little book i read. He was saying that a relative to your stack size a 3! Shouldn't be larger then 15% of your stack or flat if your holding the second nuts without chance if improvement. Which will give you plenty of fold equity if someone jams.

Hahahhaha simple advice but awesome.

Fairly sure the 3! size comment was referring to pf. 7 open at 1/3 is a bit small, 3! to 17 with a caller in-between is really small. Kind of surprised BU folded, tbh.

35 was what I came up with too as a 3! size, assuming we want to 3! at all. For the incredibly tiny sizes, and depending on how aggro the blinds + BU are, I don't hate overcalling. Especially if you've no idea how sticky everyone is. 7 is like 1.5% of our stack.

Post-flop, H has the bad end of the straight, on a straight 3, two-tone board. Raising MP's donk is fine, if obvious about what we probably have. I'd have gone bigger with the raise, 60 or so, as her 1/3 pot bet was kind of small, but w/e, 45 is fine. Lolfold to UTG's massive x-raise.

3bet pre should be $25. As played, which is fine except for the small 3bet, I'm snap shoving. Snappity snap snap. If he has a bigger straight, more power to him. I'm more than happy to gii ahead if he has a set, two pair, flush draw...

Grunch:

Raise larger pre. Making it $17 over a $7 open and a call accomplishes nothing.

Flop, what the hell is MP doing? You said she's tight. What is she betting here? I'm guessing it's not air when she comes out and donks.

And what the serious f**k is UTG doing, check-raising huge over her donk and your raise?

I dunno man. I can't imagine flopping a straight on a two flush board and folding it, but it's the low end of the straight, and we've got the two big stacks blasting into us. Maybe she's got 2P or a set, and he's got TP with the NFD, and we're ahead, but I'm not loving this spot.

I guess if we're going to play 87s this way, we have to go with it, but... I might find a fold here, facing this action.

At these stack sizes I can get behind a 3bet preflop (which we should never be doing against the smaller stacks). But our sizing is completely wack; we're basically minraising an insanely small open to begin with plus a call? Our FE with this sizing is 0%. I'd go like $35 to actually have a chance at winning it outright or actually narrowing things to HU. Our postflop FE plummets once we don't go HU. I don't think it's a crime to flat in position for this small price either.

SPR is 8.5. Are we comfortable stacking off aginast broadway card playing MP with bottom straight? Possibly. They could have all the sets, two pears, pear + draws. So I think I'm ok with attempting to go broke here. Again, our raise size is wack; they led for just 1/4 PSB, so a typical 3x raise is still << PSB. They most likely have a bunch of stuff that ain't folding to a large raise, so I go much larger.

Facing a large stack committing re-raise sucks. Usually re-raises are only the stone cold nuts for most players. But the question is are we shown sets here enough? Maybe? ETA: Didn't realize it was UTG cold raising; I think (?) this might even be a stronger play against two players who seem very interested in the pot.

Ggrossspot,IwouldmakeaherofoldagainstthoseonthenittyspectrumG

After thinking about it, yep, even my suggestion of 60 for the flop raise is probably too small. Should I be looking at this similarly to PLO, and start thinking of it as raises being some portion or multiple of the pot? Instead of the 2-3.5X bet size I usually size raises by?

So, we have a UTG check, 1/3-ish pot donk by MP, making the bet to us 15, and the pot 70 ish. Should we be betting something like 85 then? We can raise over pot, of course.

I mean it all depends on what we're trying to do and stack sizes. But in general, our raise size should not be a "standard" multiple of the bet size. Obviously if someone bets $3 into a $45 pot then raising to 3x = $9 is ridiculous.

In general, and especially when I'm cool with stacking off, I typically like to offer poor 2:1 odds with my raise sizing, which means raising to potsize + (2 x betsize), which in this case would be $70 + (2 x $15) = $100. And then I'd take a look at that number and see how that works for stacks. In this case it would produce a $255 pot with $480 left, so reasonable enough to get in over the last two streets (*if* we're cool with doing that).

GcluelesssizingnoobG

I see your point, but if we do 3! to 70$ and simply get called now instead of re-shoved when the K comes on the turn its very easy to have a q in this spot and the villian has simply paid for a draw. I would think the only course of action is to check the turn or do we stay on the aggressive? Counter intuitively if they do re-shove your 70$ I think all we can do here is fold correct? or do we roll the dice with the second nuts and all the draws in the world out there? This was all going through my head in this spot when I even 3! at all and I probably should have just called that was the best play.

Obviously if someone continues to our flop raise and then a terrible draw completing card comes in we'll probably have to readjust our commitment plan.

The flop is tricky (imo) and how you approach it mostly comes down to whether you are comfortable playing for stacks with this hand at this SPR (and you might even adjust your thinking as the hand plays out).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Just the point I wasn't going to risk my stack on this hand, especially that its so early in the hand. I can't tell if your trolling me half the time or actually trying to give advice, but I am leaning towards the former as you think I am some kind of novice. My guess is that your probably a really young guy or just angry with life.

He's an old guy. I think 50-ish. Don't know if he's angry at life. He strikes me as being pretty contented.

He gets a ton of respect from some regs here. Also his fair share of criticism. He has a style of play that seems to work well for him. I think it's low variance, and as such, I don't think it's the highest EV.

From what I've seen, he's extremely consistent when it comes to what he posts, which I think is respectable. Like his style or not, at least he's staked out a position on the map and can always be found there.

My personal take is that I don't like his style of play, and don't always care for his style of posting, but he does find ways to challenge the logic of what other people post, so if nothing else, he adds value in that way, by enforcing the rest of us to be more rigorous in our thinking about the game.

And for that, maybe we ought to thank him. At the very least, it can't hurt to consider what he says, decide if it's worth accepting, and maintain an appropriate degree of courtesy in our replies, if only because it keeps this place from becoming unnecessarily rancorous.

doc not hatin' just sayin' vail

Fold preflop, but it you are going to 3!, make it 25 or 30. You wouldn't make it 17 with AA. When you 3!, you want to represent AA.

I was referring to his clueless noob statement at the end of his post. I don't mind criticism but I think you can get where I'm coming from.

He does that at the end of all his posts, like an artist signing his work. I think he's entertaining himself. He also deliberately misspells trapping as "tarping" and pair as "pear".

He's quirky like that. It's not about you. It's all about him. Don't read anything into it.

Just took me off cuff is all

kinda skimmed hand but it seems to me some fish donk gaybet the flop into 2 players, you raised, and then an even bigger fish 3bet jammed. So both players *think* they have good hands, but since their grasp of relative hand strength is likely skewed I dont see how we can fold. Ranges should be 2pair+, you're basically firing 1 bullet with 2nd nuts at these stakes/stack sizes so just roll with it, reload and take a note if you're actually behind.