Can you fold turn here? 1/3
Villain 1 is an older Persian guy. When he gets drunk, he can get really crazy spewy. So far, he's only a couple wines in so is playing a fairly taggish game pre and laggy post.
Villain 2 is MAWG. Seems pretty tight and straightforward so far. Have double barreled him one time and seen nothing crazy from him thus far in the hour or so of playing.
Stacks are 700 eff.
Villain 1 raises to 15 UTG. Villain 2 re-raises to 35 UTG+1. Folds to Hero on SB who has KK and makes it 95. Villain 1 folds and Villain 2 calls. I was trying to make it small enough that maybe Villain 1 might call, but alas still too big. Maybe sizing like 75 is good? It doesn't really change too much in terms of ranges. I'm not sure if Villain 1 is 3-betting a little light for value here to isolate. Am suspecting not, but certainly could be wrong.
Flop QT3cc (205)
Hero bets 75. Villain 2 very assertively asks what my stack size is. He then calls.
Turn T (355)
Hero checks. Villain 2 bets 150 announcing it super confidently. Hero calls. I'm not really sure what I beat here except maybe like an overplayed AQ/JJ or some random AK bluff.
River J (655)
Hero check/folds to his allin.
Should I just barrel this? Seems like a good way to value own myself. It seems pretty clear how this hand played that he most likely has QQ. I don't see him turning KK/AA into bluffs here. Him asking my stack size so obviously just seems like a dead giveaway of how do I get stacks in bc I have a set. I feel like I could just c/f the turn because it's so damn obvious, but I wanted to possibly stop a bluff and never seen this guy before. Feel like my thought process on this hand is all FUBAR.
9 Replies
Seems fine to me, other than your reasoning surrounding the preflop action.
You want to be heads up, although taking down $50 pre-flop with KK in the blinds without a flop is AOK in my book.
Since you don't want this to go multi-way, you really needed to raise to at least $110.
Otherwise, the hand looks pretty standard, including the river fold, since it's difficult to believe that we're good at least a third of the time.
4bet way larger pre. 150. Flop is a small cbet imo, like 50. Turn barrel large or check, if he calls shutdown. Your sizings suck imo. Runout also sucks.
Banana, we don't mind a call do we? Which we're not going to get 4!'ing over 4X. Even from the SB. "Straightforward MAWG" is probably folding everything QQ- to that size, right? Are we ripping, say, A9o to this size as a 4!-f bluff?
Agreed though, we're not thrilled about going MW OOP with KK.
hand is played fine. fold river.
checking flop should also be considered. in fact thats what id do most of the time when OOP on this board because 1) i dont want to bloat the pot on this board and 2) most of my range is AK here so balance is important. also a lot of villains range is QQ and TT.
cold 4bet pre sizes should be smaller than 3b sizes relative to the pot because ranges are so condensed. its why the standard size 4b is 2.5x the 3b size. you might make it slightly larger due to being OOP but i doubt it matters much.
You can argue some sizes, but imo hand is wp throughout.
River is a trivial fold. We beat nothing; even a semi bluff AcKc got there. Expect him to show up with QQ a lot of the time here.
You want to be heads up, although taking down $50 pre-flop with KK in the blinds without a flop is AOK in my book.
Since you don't want this to go multi-way, you really needed to raise to at least $110.
Why do we want to be heads up? Villain 1 is a super drooler when drunk, but he's not great when sober. He told me during his smoke break that he had won every pot that session by bluffing his missed draws. Dunno if he was trying to set me up or what because prior to that he didn't seem out of line.
checking flop should also be considered. in fact thats what id do most of the time when OOP on this board because 1) i dont want to bloat the pot on this board and 2) most of my range is AK here so balance is important. also a lot of villains range is QQ and TT.
Oh thanks yeah this is really good.
Can you fold turn here?
It seems like no one thinks we can or should, but I'm wondering what's his turn range like? Because once he asks oh how much is in your stack is basically saying "I have a hand I want to get my whole stack in". Dunno if it's some reverse tell or something? AA/KK/QQ/TT/AQ? I'm not even sure it includes AQ. Maybe people are silly enough to bet AQ there, but I kind of expect due to preflop positions to discount that hand quite a bit. So basically he only has set of queens, maybe tens. I just feel like calling turn is burning money, but it also seems so wrong to fold for one bet there.
Larger preflop - I'd make it 120 or so - V1 will either get involved or he won't, don't worry about it, you want to build a pot while you're ahead and you'd rather be heads up.
Flop cbet fine, you could go a pinch smaller if you wanted (and maybe should). Being OOP you could check but in a 4bet pot you pretty much have the right to cbet almost every board.
Turn is interesting - Ten doesn't change much but reduces combos you're losing to - I'd be tempted to go again but checking is fine. Feels like there are a lot of draws here.
River card is abysmal and nothing you can do now apart from check-fold.
PRE - V2's 3B size is small. Think I might 4B to $150 here, when we'll be OOP the rest of the hand.
FLOP - I'm range-checking from OOP as the PFR. Let V stab with Qx and all his draws. Check-raise if he bets small. Flat call if he bets big.
Alternatively, range-betting for a small size as the pre-flop 4B'er seems fine.
TURN - Because we raised so small pre, V can have some strong hands here, and we're not deep enough to raise-fold, so just flat call. I doubt V has AA, but he could have QQ, TT, and occasionally QT, but also JJ, AQ, and AK. Maybe even ATs, because we 4B so small pre.
RIVER - the J is possibly the worst card possible. We lose to QQ, Tx, JJ, QJ, and AK. Hard to put V on AK the way this was played, and with our blockers. Also hard to put him on Tx, QJ or JJ when he asks about our stack size on the flop. It does seem like V has QQ a lot here, when he jams, probably hoping we have AK and got there on the river.
Hate to fold big over-pairs, but folding KK here seems correct.
...It seems like no one thinks we can or should, but I'm wondering what's his turn range like? Because once he asks oh how much is in your stack is basically saying "I have a hand I want to get my whole stack in". Dunno if it's some reverse tell or something? AA/KK/QQ/TT/AQ? I'm not even sure it includes AQ. Maybe people are silly enough to bet AQ there, but I kind of expect due to preflop positions to discount that hand quite a bit. So basically he only has set of queens, maybe tens. I just fee
It could be a monster trying to figure out how to get stacks in by the river. It could also be some sort of draw trying to figure out if he's getting the right implied odds, and / or at what point he may want to jam for max fold equity.
He can have some AK in his range. Maybe also KJ, especially KJcc.
The more I think about it, I'm not sure QQ is going to ask how much we have, and then flat call. I think QQ that 3B-calls pre and flops top set on this wet and dynamic board is going to be raising a lot.
I dunno. If our read is that he's tight, he might fold KJs pre. So his range gets pretty condensed when he flat calls our 4B. I'd think he has AKs and TT-QQ going to the flop. Doubtful he's betting JJ on the turn or bothering to ask about our stack size, so this seems like AK, QQ, or TT.
Can't fold turn. Can't really do anything but call and see a river.