3bet KQo on the BTN vs Serial Limper?

3bet KQo on the BTN vs Serial Limper?

1/2. Effective stacks are 425.

Over eight orbits, V has limped about 40 percent of his hands. He has limped-called bets to 12 or 15 six times and showed down KJo in one of them. V has not yet opened, not even once that I saw (I missed probably seven hands in those eight orbits).

OTTH

UTG limps. V in LJ raises to 15. Folds to hero on the BTN with KcQh. Hero?

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31 December 2024 at 03:37 PM
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15 Replies



Honestly may just fold.


I would fold. Certainly not 3-betting. You are probably dominated by most of his range.

Without the read, then either call or 3-bet, but folding wouldn't be terrible even without reads.


Against a standard player I'd cheerfully 3bet this. Against someone who is a confirmed limper - and the additional info that (1) the limp-calling range includes KJo and (2) he hasn't yet raised is highly pertinent - yes it's probably a fold. KQs or AQo/AJo would make for an interesting decision.


by moxterite k

Against a standard player I'd cheerfully 3bet this. Against someone who is a confirmed limper - and the additional info that (1) the limp-calling range includes KJo and (2) he hasn't yet raised is highly pertinent - yes it's probably a fold. KQs or AQo/AJo would make for an interesting decision.

Agree. Against this V I would flat KQs and AQo. Fold AJo


Snap fold


Fold, grab your cards back from the dealer, and then fold again.


Results:

Hero folds. Thanks everyone!


I fold and be happy for saving $15.

3bet range is an interesting question, I'd be inclined to 3bet AA only. If we use my 3rd grade math skills, assuming V has played ~70 hands, his range may be around 3%, with a wide margin of error of course. That implies JJ+/AK. Our KK is obviously ahead but we can flat IP and keep his range wide. Or maybe this is a huge and ridiculous overadjustment based on 8 orbits, I dunno.


Slam dunk fold. 3b > call.


by fatmanonguitar k

Agree. Against this V I would flat KQs and AQo. Fold AJo

I'd be much happier calling with a part of my range that doesn't overlap with their QQ+/AKs. Calling all PP, and I might (if the blinds are passive) calling medium & low SCs. We've over >200bb and this player type might get entitlement tilt if we hit bingo! with something low.

Just think we get dominated way too often with the AQo of the world. This V, we spike an Ace, are we really all that happy still?


by WereBeer k

I fold and be happy for saving $15.

3bet range is an interesting question, I'd be inclined to 3bet AA only. If we use my 3rd grade math skills, assuming V has played ~70 hands, his range may be around 3%, with a wide margin of error of course. That implies JJ+/AK. Our KK is obviously ahead but we can flat IP and keep his range wide. Or maybe this is a huge and ridiculous overadjustment based on 8 orbits, I dunno.

We want the blinds gone though, right? Though I see what you're saying.

I do think this V will be easy to read post with some betting flop or turn.


The guiding principle here is that V is doing something against what he usually does. When someone usually limps, their limping range is going to include the hands that KQ is doing well against. So their raising range is going to have KQ in bad shape and I am happy to fold.

By the way, I have seen this principle work the other way too. There is an aggressive reg in my regular game, and they have started occasionally limping. When they do this, I have seen limp/reraises disproportionately often.


I have actually seen someone who only raises QQ+. Saw her raise and showdown AA and QQ and limp/call AK.


Call or fold are both OK. We shouldn't be afraid of seeing a flop against a fish 200bb+ deep on the BTN with KQo, even if we suspect his range is premium heavy. We can still play poker and plan on exploit overfold postflop to agression.

It's not like players who limp a lot, don't always raise hands for fun too etc.

Implied odds against fish also tend to be higher, not to mention its good to give fishy players some action once in a while.


why would you 3b when you know you are behind?

against loose passives who raise like 5% of the time or less you should fold all dominated unpaired hands, except maybe AQ. i think 80 hands with no raises is enough of a sample to fold KQo. especially if you are prone to playing fit or fold postflop, which judging from your posts I think you are.

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