1/3 river jam

Welcome to the forums!

Having said that, calling an UTG raise from MP with KTs is pretty ugly, especially in a rake-pot game and doubly especially since you're on a shorter stack.

"Fold Pre" -- Live it, learn it, love it. 😀

Thanks, yes I agree calling with KTs is too wide, but I have the impression/expectation that I can easily get maximum value from TPTK+ when holding nuts/second nuts at 1/3. Hence I tend to over call with drawing hands when having position, as 3 betting is generally rare. Maybe I am wrong?

Since we are talking preflop, I would fold. We don't have to play every suited Broadway in every situation and this one is not a good spot: a UTG open (albeit your reads are relevant), you are only in MP, you are only 80BB effective, you hold one of the weaker suited Broadway holdings. This is pretty much always a fold for me (you could 3bet once in a while).

Flop call is good; raising achieves nothing.

Definitely bet the turn! You have the second nuts and you have to build the pot now so that you can get stacks in on the river. You're getting called by UTG's overpairs more often than not and anyone could have a set, straight or lower flush. This is the biggest error of the hand IMHO.

Nobody has shown much interest in the hand. You'd think that BB would raise flop with a set on this dynamic board. BB can still have a smaller flush or straight and given the weak action so far, there can be bluffs. I would call river.

Thank you moxterite, when checking turn, my reasoning was it is very likely I could keep my lead til the river. The players involved would likely call with a wider range by then compared to betting turn, even without strong hands as they have shown a history of over calling at river. To summarize, I am deviating based on my reads on the 1/3 game and this one in particular. I would definitely not do that facing weak calling station that gives up on river for example. That being said, I think I probably still bet turn with higher probability.

Fourth nuts. Two straight flushes as well as A high flush.

Well seeing as we're visiting pedants' corner, BB is described as having a reasonable preflop range so will very rarely have 85 or 53.

Agreed, but A high flush is pretty much blocked by my hand, so in general I remove much of that from my decision, definitely a possibility though.

I'm not sure why you assume that your positional and possible skill advantage automatically outweigh his range advantage and your own RIOs?

My take is to fold pre/bet turn for 1/3-2/3 pot? The reason I post this is because I am still pretty convinced of the impression that players at 1/3 do not bluff much with all in at river, and trying to decide where should I call with second nuts.

Irrelevant of BB's actual hand, do you think I should call/fold river if BB calls my turn bet and raise me on the river? Or if BB calls turn and donks river?

He definitely has range advantage, but that actually helps with the value extraction if my theory/read is correct. There are multiple hands earlier where they bluff catch with second/third pair, or simply could not fold over pair/two pairs on a wet board and opponent showing strong hands. With all these bluff catching going on I am expecting them to not respect my larger bets, especially when I appears to be stealing the pot.

Maybe I am wishful thinking, also this would work better if I have a deeper stack. I am just trying to figure out the right amount of deviation to play against the usual regs at 1/3.

Being the first caller in MP to an EP raise with this hand is extremely meh, imo. I'd fold preflop.

I'm fine with just calling the flop. With TP + draw I think we should be leaning more towards calling due to better showdown value / we're targeting very little as a bluff. With a smaller pair + flush draw I'd lean more to raising due to less showdown value / we're targetting quite a lot as a bluff.

Wait, did we just make our flush on the turn and check it back? This seems like a massive mistake to me. We have $200 left and the pot is $130, it will be very difficult to get that in on the river without betting the turn. Just a 1/2 PSB of $75 will setup a river jam of << 1/2 PSB $125 into $280. ETA: Also note how like 80% of the deck can kill our action on the river.

I think given how the hand played out we're probably forced to call the river. Everyone looks weak from the turn checks. You'd think anything that turned into a fullhouse would have check/raised this drawy flop. He could be shoving worse for value. The only meh point is that most LLSNLers don't get too out-of-line with massive river overbets.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Thanks, the more I think about it the more I realized that checking the turn was a bad move. I think I will still need to figure out the right move against massive river overbets at this level. Probably call 50% with second nuts or sth like that.

Grunch. We have the 2nd nut flush, we've 80 bigs, we hit the flush on the Turn (IP!). Pot's 120-ish, we've 200 back, and we don't bet for value???!

I have to admit, I lost interest after reading that. Yikes, bet 40-60, something! UTG bombed flop, they might continue. Ugh.

AP, the V that bombed 2x pot on a pairing river, has also bought in 2x more in the last three orbits or so. Man, I dunno what to think.

Screw it, call. You couldn't have underrepped this more. And they've shown (maybe?) they're pretty imprudent.

Of course they've 76. Because this is a thread. Well, I hope we've all learned our lesson.

At least it was only 80 bigs. Rebuy!

Raise flop and if checked to on the turn bet that about half pot..

Sure 76s is going to come along still, it’s a cooler in the end, but you want to get the money in with such a strong hand

Zomg I just legit LOL'd!

You owe me a new laptop. I just spit my drink out all over mine.

I did the exact same thing but at work HAHAHAHA!!

oh as for the hand snap call your in for enough already you wanted this action to begin with for playing this hand from pre. Not betting the turn was the worst part of this hand for me when you hit your flush and your not folding to a 3! either so why not call and rebuy the rest of the table seems to think its cool... and once again you were find from pre playing for second nut flush you must live with it!

Yes I did snap call as like you said this is what I wanted (not this board though). But afterwards I feel there is room to fold to average 1/3 player's river overbet and still make it a +EV move..

Ya but it got super expensive I would've taken advantage of pot control here.

I doubt the river would've been jammed so hard if u had bet the turn. I really think that's what was very very wrong with this hand play.

I'm assuming you only had 1 heart?

Even then, I'd fold against 3x pot bet. He could have so many random full houses. Don't think he's going to do that with nut flush here either.

I also wouldn't mind betting $30-40 on the turn to go check check on the river. Easy fold when raised

Blinds: $1/3
Hero: MP (K♠️ 10♥️)
Villains: UTG, BB

Preflop ($4):
raise $12, call, call

Flop ($37): 10♠️ 7♥️ 6♥️
check, bet $30, call

Turn ($97): 10♠️ 7♥️ 6♥️ 4♥️
check, check, check

River ($97): 10♠️ 7♥️ 6♥️ 4♥️ 6♠️
all-in $280, fold

Total pot: $377

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