1/3 jam river with 66 on flush board?

I'd probably lean to an overlimp after two limpers but whatever.

Calling a 3bet for a big 12% of stacks seems meh to me although I guess we have position.

Most people don't check overpairs on drawy boards so I'd probably bet flop for protections when checked to unless this guy is extremely tarpy (and we've picked out some outs if he is).

I'm also checking back turn as his mostly likely hand got there.

What is the read we have on Villain? Cuz he's taken a very weird line. Are we supposed to believe he 3bet prefop, flopped a flush draw, and checked it? Ditto for checking an overpair? Ditto for checking the flop with whiffed AK and then checking it when it gets there on the turn? Most villains just never take this line with an actual hand, so it looks FOS to me. Honestly, I'd consider calling with just the pocket pair. With the straight, I still mostly think he has air so I'm not sure what the point of raising would be. If he's tricky/tarpy then more reason to shove to target wierdo AA/KK/AK. The one exception may be something like Kxcc, where he checked the flop to check/raise, checked the turn with showdown value, and now goes for value with the flush.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm fine with both limping and raising pre, but I'm folding to the 3bet.

I'm not raising the river, I don't even wanna call tbh, but that's just me (readless, most people betting almost pot in that spot aren't trying to bluff or they would of cbet/bet the turn).

At these stacks sizes, I'm likely folding mid-PPs to the 3-bet, unless the villain is the type of fish who raises mostly with premiums and will always stack off with TP or an overpair, in which case I'll probably call.

Think you get shown AQ/AJcc a ton here, especially a 'tricky', more passive than aggro V. Not how I would play it at all, and I'd expect this more from an IP V vs the OOP V we've here, but I can see it. Front-door flushes are drawn to even when they shouldn't be by the LLSNL population and it's not like we stopped them from trying. Not raising.

Not folding a straight, though this is a big bet from a V content to x flop & turn, and about the only reason why is that they hit gin. Playbig is likely correct here. Also not calling this 3!, though at least BB didn't make it 75-80. Anyway, here we are.

Why did you x-b flop? 753 is a long way from 754, where OK, maybe x-b & see what happens.

Fold pre. Rivers a huge stab and he has very few flushes. I think I minclick river, fold if he shoves.

Against most V's I'd fold to the 3B when we're not deep enough to set mine.

Definitely not jamming the river with a bluff catcher when the flush comes in. What worse calls? Just call. Jamming is turning a thin value hand into a bluff.

Even if V is FOS, what does raising accomplish if he's only folding worse and only calling with better?

Much better result if you limped and BB raised and it went 4 to the flop and you would have position. However, raising might be better than limping in general, considering other scenarios.

I would definitely call the 3! with immediate pot odds and position.

He bet almost pot on the river. Not sure there is that much he bet/calls that you beat, so I would flat call.

I'd overlimp here, but raising is OK. Calling a 3x 3bet in position is OK - this is probably a snug range from the BB here, but we do have some stack depth and you do have odds; I'd fold to 4x.

Flop check back is OK, you could also definitely bet. Turn check back is OK.

On the river, you may be ahead you may be behind, but if you raise do you get called by worse enough - is he calling all his bluffcatchers? Seems like you can call here very profitably without needing to get creative (obviously you're not raising as a bluff).

Thanks for replies. So i didn’t want to put a villain read cause it def affected how i played the hand. My default is just to call the river but vs the villain who is splashy and sticky, i jammed and he tank called off AK. But i wanted to be sure that calling is standard as i did take a minute going back and forth lol.

With regards to folding pre, how much are yall calling behind? i had to call 40 more and stacks were about 500 after the call…not enough?

I think calling is standard because we've the straight, and there's all sorts of silliness V can have here besides a flush. With a 100 call for a pot of 227, we need to be right around 30% of the time. I disagree with banana in that I think V has quite a few flushes---I mentioned AQ and AJ, but Axcc might be 3!'d too, depending on our V---but I don't think they've a flush >70% of the time. And H beats everything else they've played weirdly, like not betting AK when the K hits.

On the pf call, we're mostly playing 66 for set value. We need to call 40 for a pot of 87, and there's 460 back. So 40 to make 547 is about 13.5 to 1. We're IP, but I gather this crowd likes > 15 to 1 to do this, given set over set and other follies. Usually, this question is asked from an OOP V, so tougher to realize equity when we hit, and I wonder if that bias is leaking into responses for an IP H? Re-reading this, I don't mind the call. But I'm sticky and loose and like trying for sets.

V makes it 80 instead, and we're now looking at 60 for 107, and 440 back. 60 to 547 is 9-ish to 1, which is no good for us.

Fold to 3bet, it's borderline if you play well.

Need to start betting flop given you called the 3bet, or the preflop call is a punt. Might require trying to get V to fold an overpair. Obv. if he x/r it's a bad spot.

Turn wp.

River is annoying, you still really need all the rest of the money to go in to make preflop not a punt but it's scary for even KK and it looks a lot like he has one pair or maybe a flush sometimes.
Not having a club is bad for you raising.

460 is not 500. Flop SPR is also fairly small at just less than 4. Lots of viable lines from V make it a two street game.

The math limit for set mining is 10x to break even and you have 11.5x behind (2x in dead money) and position. So in theory it's slightly winning. In reality it's still going to be difficult to make this long term profitable (although maybe not against this guy).

Folding pre not actually sure why you were even making it 20$ unless this is your standard open(opening 12$ seems like a fair amount to get out easy from a 3!), but I really like limping this hand to set mine calling a standard size raise instead of being the aggressor. Worst thing that happens is button raises or limps and then the BB raises 15 to 20$ to narrow the field still leaving you with lots of position.

This hand doesn't fair well to a nicely sized 3! but hey I guess we are set mining. Worst possible river in the world, but I don't think you would have had to deal with such large sizing if you had stabbed at either the flop or the turn. Either way we continued and saw no aggression whatsoever on flop or turn I would have certainly at least stabbed at the turn, but once again no aggression shown.

River comes V probably has a suited Broadway that hit the river and wants extreme value (it really looks too large for anything else), if it was me I would have folded to 100 on the river no way I am jamming here and if I did call I'm only calling to fish for information knowing that so many combos of clubs are destroying me here.

The standard play against the population is definitely just flat calling.

If you had a read that V can't lay down TPTK no matter what the board looks like, and you got him to call a jam, that's awesome, and good for you. But don't try that $hlt against most opponents.

I think opening to $20 over two limps at 1/3 is fine, assuming A) the usual RFI size is $10-$15, preferably closer to $15 more often than not, and B) the table isn't SUPER splashy, in which case I might open even larger.

My usual rule of thumb with set-mining is that we need to have stack depth that is at least 15x the increment of the bet or raise we need to call. I'm not sure where I got that 15x number from. I think maybe Bart Hanson. I know the odds of flopping a set are 12%, which would seem to suggest we only need 8.3x, but I would guess that we shouldn't necessarily assume we'll always be able to get stacks in if we do happen to flop a set, and therefore we should seek better implied odds.

Here, we need to call off another $40 pre, and so it's pretty easy math to arrive at a $600 remaining stack depth at 15x. Since we're in position, and especially if we know our opponent is bad enough to make a huge mistake post-flop, I don't think it's terrible to call. But I would generally be folding middling pairs to a 3B out of the BB, because the BB is often going to be calling so wide, that a 3B tends to be a pretty strong hand.

As for raising the river - I would actually really like to min-click this with a bluff, but only if A) our opponent is polarized to a very strong hand or donkey balls, B) our hand has no showdown value, and C) we know V is a thinking player, capable of folding his bluffs that are still stronger than whatever garbage we have.

Our straight has way too much showdown value to turn it into a bluff here, so I wouldn't min-click it. But, if we know our customer, and we know he's often over-playing super-thin value when he takes this line, and we know he'll pay off if we look FOS, then, Hell yeah, take him to the cleaners, and raise big. Just be able to shake it off if he snaps with a flush, or even a better straight.

It would suck for him to somehow get here with 86ss.

Kind of weird, because you should be good here. He should cbet with a flush draw and otherwise you lose to 86s. I still wouldn't raise the river though.