2/5 NL, 280bb deep vs good reg, decision point on all streets, middle set...4bet pot!

I don't like the tiny bet on the flop, but I rarely do. This board is pretty draw heavy, so don't give him such a cheap turn. Bet on the turn is OK.

I really don't think he's calling with worse on this river. You bet, bet, bet. Maybe he calls w/ AK, but that's about it that you beat. It might be weak, but I check behind.

Flat pre is probably better. 4bet sizing seems quite big as played.

Gotta jam here, I think.

Sizing pre is a little large, but I like committing the BTN. I guess he's committed if we go $200, too, so that might be better.

This deep, especially in position, I like the 4bet pre, but for a smaller size, ~200.

Flop is a range bet, you might go slightly bigger, but ok.

OTT, both H and V should have very few made flushes, if at all.
It seems to me a good spot for H to shove. Actually a slightly larger cbet otf would have set up an easier turn shove.

As played, following your reasoning, OTR we are behind 2 combos of KhKx and 1.5 combos of AA, maybe we could add one combo of JTs or KJhh.
On the other hand, I don't think V can fold any of his 9 combos of AK to a 1/2 pot bet, thus I think we should shove.

Clear value jam on river. I would not 4b this deep pre with fish in hand.

Seems fine overall.

Flop size seems a little bigger for A high board and turn size is a little awkward. I don't think there are too many flushes in either range on the turn.

The V is described as a good reg, and he supposedly thinks H is a good reg. What is V calling with on the river that we beat? What would we be "bluff" or "semi-bluff" shoving? Are we trying to get V to fold AA or KK? (That's a joke.)

Looks good to me. I like the 4bet but wouldn't go bigger than 200.

Flop is fine. Turn good too in order to set up meaningful river shove; Niemand suggestion of larger flop size leading to turn jam is also interesting.

Your assumptions re hand reading the BB all seem pretty reasonable to me. Maybe he 5bets AA and KK more than you suggest, but to balance that he'd 5bet AK more than you suggest as well so on the whole looks like you have his range pretty well defined. Flushes are going to be very rare and AK is going nowhere so this feels like a confident and profitable jam now

I'm not so sure about the 4bet unless we've a relatively high 4bet frequency versus this particular Villain (and therefore some 4bet bluffs or at least a wider value range than QQ+). I agree with others regarding the 4bet size being too large. Also wouldn't mind info on the SB's 3bet range. Does he 3bet suited broadways always from SB? Or does he have a flatting range from the SB, which would likely include JTs, KJs etc? Regardless seems like a value shove on river.

Sb? You mean BB right? He def has a calling range from bb, i would expect him to 3bet more linear with the fish in. 99+, AQo+ KTs+, JTs, QJs, A4-A5s ATs+.

Preflop is def close, we do play together in highly aggro 5/10/20 games where there’s alot of 3-4 betting so its not like me 4betting is super uncommon to him. I guess he knows i should be more straightforward in this spot and im more geared towards value with the occasional A5s thrown in there.

Yes, I meant BB, apologies. Given that linear 3bet range and your history with Villain, 4betting QQ IP makes more sense for pure value (also means there's 3 combos of AQ as another value target on river, although he might not continue with the 2 offsuit combos pre).

I'm trying to figure out why you didn't just jam the turn.

really hard for ip to be bluffing tbh

dislike pre w positions / stacks, idk i guess jam now

Do good TAG regulars from super-aggro 5/10/20 games normally check-call off over 1K of their stacks in 7-handed 2/5 games that are probably breaking soon at 3am hoping for a chop or bluff catch with top two or top middle on a 4-bet three flush board?

Yes.

No.

Thank you, Mark & Newt. Screenshotted.

After sleeping on it, considering H’s description of V and their shared history, plus this is a late night ready to break baby stakes game for them, I think V decided to disguise his pocket aces after fish folded to H’s 4 bet pre flop. Either that or JhTh or KhKx. I don’t see him playing AQ or AK that passively.

You are far from the only one who thinks 4bet is fine, and even Mlark's comment suggests he might be fine with it except we want to keep the fish in ... BUT literally every preflop chart/sim isn't 4betting QQ here more than like 5% of the time (and that only happens when it gets deep, presumably for 4bet "board coverage" -- lol).
Also that's with solver 4betting a much lower size.

To be fair solver doesn't have the third player in and so will call a lot in BB, so maybe a solver with a cold caller in there would 4bet more as you (because BB would then 3bet more), but as Mlark said you probably want the worst player in there.

On flop I would probably bet a bit more, so we threaten shove turn (and then do it).

On turn I don't love this size, seems like it'd be a lot easier to be bluffing for larger.

On the river even if he gets here with every combo. of AK that's only 9 combos. max (and a solver doesn't have anywhere near all of them from just the preflop action) and he has at least 5 combos. of better sets and presumably at least a couple of combos. of flushes.
If he gets here with all of the AK and then calls all of them, it's fine to shove.

So im thinking in these very deep spots vs reg as the 3bettor and a bad player in the middle who just flatted the open; if you can’t really 4bet shove, do we just have no 4betting range in order to keep the fish in?

I'm not a solver-adept contributor but the difference between HU and 3way when facing a 3bet wedged between BB and BN would seem significant. That BN is a fish who is only playing a 45bb stack, while HJ and BB are 280bb effective, is perhaps even more significant.

Hence we have these two scenarios:

• 1. H flats BB's 3bet IP, BN 4bet shoves, BB 5bets
  
• 2. H 4bets, BN 5bet shoves, BB flats the 5bet
  

Scenario (1) is probably a fold, (2) probably a call (versus a BB who's capable of flatting the 5bet with AA/KK as well AK/AQs/99-JJ).

Interesting, seems like the majority wants to shove. I'm with the only other who says to check back to avoid a trap. I'm guessing V has the rockets and wants to c/c in case H hit his flush somehow but otherwise V is confident and letting H hang himself. Who smooths oop a 4bet $250 unless it's AA? Ok, I'm nittier than most of you, but that's some play to me even if that deep. The flop bet is bad because one might feel like gambling with JT or KK, and obviously JhTh, but unless V got lucky, I'm going with AA and then maybe JT. I don't see KK.

your hand doesnt really want to ever 4b this deep in theory given positions. like yeah hes probably somewhat wider since people dont study / adjust deep and maybe he does some stuff depolar bc of the fish and you won't flat as much but idk how much that changes things. it just seems like a whatever hand to have if he doesn't fold given stack depths. would not interpret not 4bing this hand as never having a 4b range

Actually a really interesting and tough spot. Some people saying why not jam turn lol.

BB can have AA, KK, JThh that beat you. He can also have AQ, AK as well. It's def tricky but given you have ~half pot left I think you just have to jam hoping that he has AQ or AK. Check feels too nitty esp given you unblock his top pair.

A turn jam would be for a 1.5 psb, and if not for that silly turn sizing there wouldn't have been a tough river spot.

What hands that fold to a turn jam are hands that we want to have stick around for less than a psb and will happily call a smaller turn bet?

If you bet 1.5x pot there, you are only going to get called by hands that beat you (top set, flushes) and fold out al the hand that you beat. Thin about it would TPTK call there? I'd also fold two pair. When a flush completes it changes equity a lot and sizing should be small for your range. There aren't that many hands you want to b150% there.