a small pot, but a lot to be learned here.
1-3 500 max. My opponent and I are fully stacked.
Villain in middle position limps, Hero on Button with A9 offsuit raises to 12. blinds fold. Villain calls.
Two ways to the flop $28 in the pot.
Flop comes Ad 10d 3c.
Villain checks. I think I'm the only one with an Ace here. I'm not worried about the flush since the Ace is on the board. I'm not worried about broadway, since most players will raise with those cards. If he does have a straight draw he only has 4 outs with one being an action killer. If I bet what calls? maybe a smaller ace. My ace isn't big enough for 3 streets of value. Maybe I can get the Villain to stab at it if he has nothing. I check.
turn is the 3 of spades. Villain bets $20. I'm chopping with any smaller Aces now. Still losing to the bigger ones. Villain may be on a draw. I wanted him to stab. I shouldn't fold and raising could be disastrous. I call
pot $68
turn is the 4 of clubs. Opponent checks.
What should hero do?
So there's been some questions about the Villains tendencies, and about the rake structure. This was in a small cardroom with a $25 door fee and no rake. I didn't see Villain get out of line. My reads were basically the table as a whol. All players seemed to know each other. Every pot was raised except when the blinds chopped. There were no big pots and most hands were won without a showdown. I guess you could call the Villain tight but not too aggressive, and cautious to put money into the pot.
Wait, the only rake is the $25 door fee? This is an *insanely* good rake. If you simply play for just ~2 hours (let alone anything more) you should come out massively ahead when compared to most normal raked games.
I think we played the hand just fine postflop.
As for worrying about players adjusting to our style, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've played in the same room for ~19 years, with the last ~16 being in the 1/3 NL game (pretty much the only game that has run during that time). While my winrate over the years has ebbed and flowed it has remained ~fairly consistent overall (even with the crushing rake continuing to go up over that time). The player pool is likely a bit bigger than you think, will cycle (recycle) people in and out, and most of them will be long term losers who won't be overly concerned about paying attention to little 'ol you. Yeah, some of them might start getting an inkling of what you're doing, but it probably won't have much long term affect. Honestly, in a room with a rake this insanely good it will be almost impossible to lose long term against your typical LLSNL line up, so don't worry about it.
GcluelessrakejellynoobG
Well played OP 😉
"any two broadway offsuit, including AK". So ATo+ Are people l/c that many A8o, etc? Maybe (maaaaybe) wheel Aces too?
I confess, as fishy as I get here, it's difficult to put myself in the minds of those particular limpy/passive fish. If I limp, or overcall, it's with a potentially nut-making or very good (set or ideally, straight&flush) making hand, and the idea is to keep IO high enough for me to fish with it.
Offsuit aces aren't likely to make those hands. They're nice blockers, so OK, open em sometimes, or 3! if our image allows, but l/c is not something I would do with them absent a really strange dynamic. So it's hard to put my head in the space of someone who would.
Question for everyone saying, "Of course we bet the flop, duh":
If we're betting 100% of the time with all of our Ax, then with what value hands are we checking back in order to protect our "check back" range?
If the answer is "I'm always c-betting with Ax here along with a lot of other hands, " then you probably are c-betting this flop too frequently.
I would raise preflop because of the value of the button.
I would bet a lot of non aces as a bluff on this board as the preflop raiser. Not worried about being balanced that much at these stakes anyway. They aren't going to exploit you because your check back range is weak. That is ridiculous.
ty to everyone who said nh, and well played
As for worrying about players adjusting to our style, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've played in the same room for ~19 years, with the last ~16 being in the 1/3 NL game (pretty much the only game that has run during that time). While my winrate over the years has ebbed and flowed it has remained ~fairly consistent overall (even with the crushing rake continuing to go up over that time). The player pool is likely a bit bigger than you think, will cycle (recycle) people in and out, and most of them will be long term losers who won't be overly concerned about paying attention to little 'ol you. Yeah, some of them might start getting an inkling of what you're doing, but it probably won't have much long term affect. Honestly, in a room with a rake this insanely good it will be almost impossible to lose long term against your typical LLSNL line up, so don't worry about it.
This cardroom normally has only one table going. They only play 1-3 friday nights after the tourney has completed. While I was there they were waiting for the enough players to start a game. The players there knew who was going to be in later. On the plus side they were ten handed which I haven't played in about 15 years.
Wait, the only rake is the $25 door fee? This is an *insanely* good rake. If you simply play for just ~2 hours (let alone anything more) you should come out massively ahead when compared to most normal raked games
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They started the game at 11:30 and close at 2 am. They continue playing after hours if there is interest. The house charges $10 an hour after that. It seems a bit much to have to pay a door fee and an hourly. Is a raked game at the casino worse?
I hear a lot of talk about check back range and protecting it. Marc **** on youtube says this a lot.
can anyone please explain this concept?
also
A lot of it is going to be perplexed by the x, so wp there, and may induce a turn stab. Also keeps the pot small, which we may want with a top pair-meh kicker hand unlikely to improve.
ty This is what I was going for here. I do not want a large pot with a pair of aces and a 9 kicker.
I hear a lot of talk about check back range and protecting it. Marc **** on youtube says this a lot...
Before the experts jump in, we add strong hands to our check back range to prevent opponents from exploiting us. Often by bluffing the turn big, either as a bet or x-raise, because they know our flop x-back range is weak (since we bet all of our value on the flop) and can't face a bet.
I just don't think it's a concern in your specific case: limper, H is on the button, opens, limper calls, flop is ATs and a blank. Bet ace, limper disbelieves or draws for the flush/straight. Or folds. Odds of them bluff x-raising flop with trash are low, given the stakes, the overall population read, and the specific limp/call behavior. So we can fold. If any of those change, we have to reassess.
We can x-back, as you did, and induce a stab by V, making more $ potentially. X-back can also induce V to continue betting on river, or call our thin value bet there.
We're basically trying to confuse V about our specific range at different points, to accommodate different potential runouts. How many value hands to add, to adequately strengthen the range, is another question...that I hope we get a framework for answering.
This cardroom normally has only one table going. They only play 1-3 friday nights after the tourney has completed. While I was there they were waiting for the enough players to start a game. The players there knew who was going to be in later. On the plus side they were ten handed which I haven't played in about 15 years.
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They started the game at 11:30 and close at 2 am. They continue playing after hours if there is interest. The house charges $10 an hour after that. It seems a bit much to have
I will say I booked my worst hourly in 2015 when my room was often down to just one table thanks to a now defunct neighbouring room splitting the action. With no table selection, this can be a meh spot if there are a few solid players in the game.
Even though the rake of $25 is just for 2.5 hours (which is the same as the $10 per hour afterwards), I think you're still coming out way ahead when compared to most casino poker rooms (that's pretty much what my room rakes from a single maximum pot). But having only the one table going isn't great so it really depends on the capable vs non-capable vs whale ratio.
GgoodluckG
