Is this just a check?

Is this just a check?

1/3 NL 8 handed. Here are a couple spots where I'm not sure if I should C bet or check.

1) A guy who is playing every hand open limps in the CO. He is an older Middle Eastern guy. He has been nursing a small stack all night (140). He will call to river post flop if he hits any pair or draw. He has folded to raises pre after limping. I raise AsTc from the button to 15, The BB calls and the CO calls. The BB is new to the table so I don't have a read. We both have about 400

(45 in pot) Kc2d3c...It's checked to me. Do I bet? If so how much?

2) Same Middle Eastern guy limps UTG, it's folded to me in the LJ and I raise KsJc to 15, A somewhat loose MAWG calls on the button. He seems to be playing reasonably straightforward post. It's folded back to UTG who calls. The button and I both have 400.

(45 in pot) Qh2d3c...UTG checks, Do I bet? If so how much?

If I shouldn't bet what would turn this into a bet? Back door flush draws? A different board texture?

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01 February 2025 at 04:42 PM
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5 Replies



Let's start with the easier one first.

Hand 2: You whiffed and are in-between two players while holding one overcard and one backdoor draw. I'm not putting any more money into the pot unless I improve.

Hand 1: This flop really shouldn't smack either of your opponents, whereas the K smacks you. After it's checked to you on the BTN, I like a bet of $15.


Here's a better way to think about it. Ask yourself "What does my c-bet range look like in spot?"

In hand 1 == in position 3 ways with two sticky players, one who sounds like a station, both who sound FoF post, with A-high and a backdoor non-nut flush draw on a K-low-low FD board.

In hand 2 == in the middle 3 ways with two sticky players, one who sounds like a station, both who sound FoF post, with K-high wrap on a Q-low-low rainbow.

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There are several parameters to consider, position, your specific hand, Vs tendencies, etc.. My advice is don't try to run before you can walk, poker knowledge is like math, it builds on itself..ie. you can't learn lesson 2 or 3 until you've really drilled lesson 1 (you can't integrate before you understand multiplication). Take it slow and build up. At LLSNL Vs play painfully straightforward and face-up post flop. Air is check-folded, marginal is check-called, value is bet, and premiums are check-called to trap or sometimes check-raised. These guys are going to be EXTREMELY STICKY post flop. In both hands your hand KJo or ATo rarely improves, when it does improve it's non-nutted (ex. hitting a T with ATo doesn't mean you can play for stacks). So all that being said, lets go back to our basic question.."What does my c-bet range look like in this spot?"

on Q-3-2 rainbow where I'm PFR in between two loose passives (one shallow) my c-bet range is pretty tight, stacks are easy to play for, there's about 50 bucks out there and even though its a single raised pot I can get the money in over three streets. Keep in mind our main bread and butter at this game (as in what we're doing 80%+ of the time) is going for value. So lets bucket our range.

Premium: QQ, 33, 22 = 9 combos

Value: AA, KK, AQo/s, KQo/s, QJs = 39 combos (I think)

Marginal: QTs, Q9s, Q8s (I open wider than most), JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, AKo/s = 60ish combos

Air: A5s, JTs, KJo ...almost endless combos of this. Poker is a game where most of the time we have nothing.

OK so now we know what our range looks like to this flop. Given these 2 Vs are calling with any piece and also going to check and let us see a free turn and possibly river, AND THAT THE MONEY CAN GO IN EASILY ESPECIALLY WITH SHORT STACK, what parts of our range want to bet? Certainly not the vast amounts of air, not our draws (not many on this board, maybe 45s) they're happy to spike and then stack off, only our value and premium really wants to bet. You have about 50 combos of value and premium and about twice as much marginal and air meaning if you bet your value and premium pure and check your marginal and air you'll be c-betting about 33% of the time. Seems reasonable to me.

This is ABC poker. Master this first. Do it over and over and over until you're comfortable.

As an exercise I'd suggest doing this for the K-3-2 flush draw board.


In both hands HU, you have the range advantage, and so you can bet small on both.

MW complicates it some. In my game, K high boards are folded most often and we have position, so I would bet this flop small.

The Q high board we are in the middle, so I would check and evaluate.


First off go read Stupidbanana's post again, well worth a read even if you are going to try just range bet small on both boards.

Also, in this fairly typical type of low stakes game where everyone is a calling station ... you can just fold KJo pre. in the LJ. Nobody will know, it's pretty much solver approved and esp. as you are learning it's going to win way more than the other options.


Grunch:

H1 -

PRE - I might over-limp on the BTN. If I'm going to raise over a limp at a splashy table, especially when this V limps, I'm probably opening larger, to fold out the blinds and get this UP and IP.

FLOP - definitely c-betting the K-high, two-tone board, for 1/3 pot, when action checks to us on the BTN.

H2 -

PRE - Probably raising bigger over the limp when we're EP/MP.

FLOP - Definitely not c-betting the Q-high flop when we're monkey-in-the-middle and the BTN calls pre. The BTN is going to have a lot more Qx in his range than we will. Just check, see what happens, and evaluate.

Having a BDFD, or having KQ on a J-high board would make me like our hand more, but I wouldn't c-bet the flop in either scenario. I just check, see if the BTN wants to bet, and if the UTG wants to raise. If the flop checks through and UTG checks again on turn, then I'll make a delayed c-bet.

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