AdJd big draw.

AdJd big draw.

1/3 NL. 8 handed.

A very loose 40 ish guy open limps ep. He has been open raising a good bit as well. I've only been at the table for 30 minutes so no more details. He is the effective with 600. I raise to 15 with AdJd and it's folded back to ep who calls.

(30 in pot) QdTd3c...It's checked to me and I bet 20, he calls.

(70 in pot) QdTd3cTc...It's checked to me, I bet 55, he raises to 160. What should I do?

Is my turn bet correct? I figured I could get him off a lower pair he called the flop with. I could make him pay for straight draws or worse flush draws. I could be drawing dead to a Kd. I may have outs if he just has a ten. He could be bluffing.

If he just called my turn bet what is my play on a blank river?

Also, feedback on any of my bet sizing's is appreciated.

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01 February 2025 at 05:31 PM
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13 Replies



This is one of the worst barreling cards. I would have checked back and see what the river brought.

AP I would call his raise but not be thrilled about it.


I think I would have barreled the turn as well, to deny equity to straight draws and middling pocket pairs.
I'd call the turn because of the pot odds, but wouldn't be thrilled and would proceed with caution even if I hit the river.


Turn card is a nut changing card, check or bet small.

Flop call from OOP is frequently middle pair...


You should expect to bet some turns, but definitely not this one, especially as you block worse flush draws and some straight draws. As played you can still call, given the effective stacks, although it's a little thin given there are few, if any, river bluffing opportunities.


PRE - Looks okay. Might sometimes open to $20 over a limp if it's a splashy game, but otherwise $15 seems fine.

FLOP - C-bet seems a little large, at least in theory, but probably okay at low stakes against sticky opponents.

TURN - The Tc wouldn't seem to change anything, unless he improved to trips, or maybe even a boat.

I'm not sure if it makes sense to size down, because he could have made trips, or size up, to set up a big river over-bet. I suppose we should also want to charge his BDFD's and straight draws. Just seems like a spot where we'd want to bet 1/2 pot or over-bet, but $55 into $70 might be okay.

I've made this play with combo draws, like KJcc or J9cc. I've also donked into the PFR when the middle card on the flop pairs on the turn, especially when that card would seem to be over-represented in my pre-flop calling range. So here, V could have a lot of Tx, maybe, the way this was played, and could be trying to rep Tx while actually being on a draw.

It's sort of gross to continue drawing to a straight or flush on a paired, two-flush board, and not be sure if our hand would even be good if we make it. We're getting 2.7 to 1, so it feels sort of nitty to fold, with a draw to the nuts, but I might find a fold her if I think V isn't capable of doing this as a bluff, and / or if he's loose.

You say he's been RFI'ing a lot. Any showdowns to give some indication of what sort of hands he's raising, or how he plays his value or draws post-flop?

With no other reads, I tend to over-fold in spots like this - turn check-raises are under-bluffed, especially at low stakes, we don't have any showdown value, and we may not even be good even if we hit our draw.


Easy turn check. It's a great card for him, and even on a blank it wouldn't be terrible to check back and realize your equity.


by mongidig k

1/3 NL. 8 handed.

A very loose 40 ish guy open limps ep. He has been open raising a good bit as well. I've only been at the table for 30 minutes so no more details. He is the effective with 600. I raise to 15 with AdJd and it's folded back to ep who calls.

(30 in pot) QdTd3c...It's checked to me and I bet 20, he calls.

(70 in pot) QdTd3cTc...It's checked to me, I bet 55, he raises to 160. What should I do?
.

You should buy a book on poker map to give yourself an idea of what you're facing here. How many outs do you have that are clean? What's the odds that they come? What's the odds that the person will call you if they come? What's the odds that he's doing this with a lesser flush draw? Will he fold if you jam?

You should really know how to put together this kind of probability in analysis before you play


I'm fine with preflop (assuming we're in LP).

I'd also cbet the flop. I'm guessing our sizing is ok due to having so much equity.

Think I'd mostly check back the turn. We block a bunch of his draws so it is just that much more likely he has a hand that isn't folding (and some of those hands now crush us).

Facing the raise actually really sucks. My guess is that we have no FE against a late street chech/raiser, so I definitely wouldn't reraise. We're being asked to call $105 to win $285, so just shy of 3:1. JT is a real possibility, which means we actually only have 7 or 8 outs in that case, plus a little unlikely to make that up given obviousness of draw / RIO when we hit and he boats up. Not impossible to be drawing to a single out. Best case-ish is like 12 outs where we're doing ok. If there's a high hand / BBJ promo I'm probably not folding due to slight extra equity / Iwannasleepwellatnight. But actually not a great spot.

GcluelessNLnoobG


turn bet is bad, and im not being results-oriented. turn favors opp range and you dont have FE vs Qx. just check back.


by 009285832 k

You should buy a book on poker map to give yourself an idea of what you're facing here. How many outs do you have that are clean? What's the odds that they come? What's the odds that the person will call you if they come? What's the odds that he's doing this with a lesser flush draw? Will he fold if you jam?

You should really know how to put together this kind of probability in analysis before you play

What is "poker map"?


by mongidig k

What is "poker map"?

poker math


by flopshove k

poker math

That's funny. I thought it was some type of GTO tool or something.


May have meant "math," but "map" works too.

There's a great post from Banana in another recent thread on this (If I find it, I'll link it) but what I mean by "map" is: a chart of potential actions for each street with a given hand, based on your opponent's perceived range and likely following actions. So, you are on the turn. You've the NFD, plus a gutter, on QT3ddx. Nice draw. You opened over an EP limper from some non-blind position, and the limper calls. You 2/3 cbet, they x-c. What is V calling with?

In my map, they're doing this with TP, 2nd pair, some middling PP some of the time, some broadway pair + sd some of the time. QTs, 33 usually raise a sort of wet flop like this; QQ/TT usually open or 3! pf. You block the good fd, though a few Vs will l-c K9s pf. Plus various SCs like 98-65(?)dd as we're 200 bigs deep pre, and this is a SRP. Bucket each of those possibilities.

Now a T hits on turn, and makes a double flush draw plus the board pairing. Go through each of the buckets and ask, if I bet, are they going to raise? Top pair has made Queens up, they might, though I think you've as many Ts as they do. Tens just made trips, and this is a double-fd board. They'll raise. Even QT, if they didn't raise flop, is now raising here, just to build a pot OOP. Low dd draws and some SCs are folding to a 3/4 turn bet with the board pairing, which isn't bad, but you're beating them already and you'd really like them to put more money in.

If you want to bet, bet small, so you can call a raise from TP, trips, w/e, and that lower SCs and fds can call. Yes, we might hate life if another club hits. But it beats betting big and getting raised like this. Anyway, that's what I mean by a map.

AP, H faces a 105 call to a pot of 285, and will have 405 back with a call here. H maybe has IO, though not pot odds, to draw here to a 12 out draw, and not to the nuts anymore. Some of those outs may be/are dirty too, e.g., 3d, K, if facing KT, etc... So, ~10 outs in reality? Is V going to really call it off if you shove river on a clean diamond?

I don't think V has a boat. I do think they probably have trips now though, with a 4-out redraw to a boat+. As is, vs KT/JT/T9, H is an 80/20 dog. Shoving seems optimistic, though it avoids the "Will they call when I hit?,"question. If you think they'll call when you hit, call & spike your draw, ez game.

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