A banana with a bad image
1/3 NLHE 8 handed
Tables are collapsing as it gets late on a Saturday night, 2 or 3am. V has just come over from a game that closed and covers us with about 900$ to our 740$. This is his second or third hand dealt in at our table.
V - M-A-filippino-G. He's mainly a TAG and plays 2/5 and is a winning player at 1/3. We've battled several times and he sees me as very capable and out of line. He's bluffed me before and tries to outplay me and make moves a lot (vs me, vs fish he's much more ABC). He's not suicide though, for instance if we're 3-ways and he's OOP to me and a loose passive and he leads (or even x/raises) into the two of us - its 99% value because he knows the loose passive will call. His style changes depending on how soft the table is. He tightens up the better the players at the game and almost only 3-bets at those games in about 15/10/5 with the occaisional call in position. I would actually almost call him a weak-tight nitty type at 2/5. As the game gets softer (and if its 1/3) he gets much wider and can go as wide as 30/20/10, but again he rarely limps or calls and only does this when there's a ton of fish involved. I've seen him tilt once or twice and he hates my humor and table talk and gets annoyed with me frequently. Covers. UTG.
HH w/ V from awhile ago: H opens MP (UTG+2 I think?) with KJs, only V calls in BB, SRP goes A-J-6 fd, he checks, I cbet small, he calls. Turn brick brings in the flush like Ad-Js-6s-2s and he donks for 1.5x pot I call with my KJ no ♠ (he has all PPs with one ♠), river 6h goes check check and he has 9d6d.
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V opens 6$ UTG (no idea what this means), two calls after some people ask if it's a straddle to which the dealer says no, Hero sees T♥ T♦ in SB and makes it 30$ off 740$ eff, BB folds and V insta-4-bets to 100$, limpers fold and it's back on us... we have 710$ back.
12 Replies
If we've never seen V min. raise UTG and snap 4bet, then it's heavily weighted to KK+ IME.
I might call anyway IP, but OOP I probably say "well played" and fold and show.
Our 3b size is too small. Vs min raise our size should be bigger, esp OOP, esp with cold callers, esp deep. 40-55.
Facing the 4b, it's close. This has to be mainly a fold in theory, but probably around 0 EV. We have about the minimum implied odds for set mining and we can be ahead pre vs AK and some light 4 bets. I think you play enough against v and he is capable enough that it is probably reasonable to mainly fold and sometimes call. If you always 3b call here v can just only 4b top of range, and if you fold too much, he 4b very often with a polar range. You have better hands to continue with here, esp QQ+ and AK. I would rather have AK tbh to block AA, KK, and have better equity vs QQ, JJ. But you're at a stack depth where it's hard to love life with anything but AA.
I'd say my overall read on this situation is that v's range leans towards being nutted, but he seems capable enough to not have to have KK+ here.
Just fold and move on. Sounds like V is trying to do fancy stuff, for no good reason. Don't reward his shenanigans.
Just fold and please, for the love of every poker god out there, DO NOT SHOW.
The small raise pre that you've never seen is probably a tell -- remember it. At worst he has AK.
$30 seems quite small after a raise and two calls this deep, no? Although you could argue it's just a juicer.
This is basically the equivalent of a LRR, imo. TT probably isn't shaping up too great against typical LRR hands.
GcluelessLRRnoobG
if there was ever a player description to rip vs, its probably him. am fairly indifferent to call / fold at equilibrium. my main impetus for considering jam here is the snap 4b and v description where he seems very playmastery and the open size (tbh filipino makes me more likely as well). id want to be pretty sure that all of those things are right / relevant before i started putting in money but if you jam you're risking what 710 to win 145? he probably needs to fold like 2/3? of the time. idk i could see it being super profitable with certain assumptions. if you jam and he folds would show and expect him to torch stack off to you
So if we had any history of this kind of action, I'd be fine with sub's: we have a decent pair and a bad image, why not shove with 55%
And we mostly collect free money or get calls when we are ahead.
I've done that in home games as light as 88 and V's have been confused that their random Ax isn't ahead of JTs or whatever they have a read on that I'm 3betting "too much".
But with no history of min. raise, 4bet ... I've seen (probably winning) regs. min. raise KQ/AK and call a 3bet a lot and min. raise 4bet KK+ enough that I would fold without thinking about it too much.
Also, I maybe show more than most ... but everyone isn't going to start min. raising 4bet bluffing if you show. They probably won't even adjust at all. What they will do is be (at least slightly) tilted when they have KK+, and generally show when they have AK.
FYI, solver calls 70% with no callers in between and folds 100% to the larger size with callers in between.
Interesting thoughts,
Result:
Spoiler
I count out my chips to see how much I have and he says 'How much more this time?' And I 5-bet to 250 thinking I'll shove for pot if I flop the overpair and probably give up if I don't.. He tank folds showing 66. I dont show (thx java).
Wow. Glad that worked out. Tons of info for future hands.
i think small 5b probably worse than 5b jam here. you don't really want to encourage him to peel or jam over with your hand, and it doesnt seem like you have a good strategy for 5b pots. you're also probably going to need to call off anyways if you make it 250 vs this guy so id just go all in
Yea I guess I just thought I'd fold to a shove, you're probably right, but I thought at the time "what would I do here with AA?"
