Turn Spot wwyd?
5/5/10 private game, this is early on where we are playing 6 handed
Villain in question has had some nice tourney cashes in the last 18 months but is terrible at cash. Punts hard, plays these games like a tournament re entry.
We are 1.1k effective before this hand
Hero has Q8 hearts on the BTN. CO opens to 35, we 3b to 110 from the BTN, Villain in BB cold calls, straddle calls and CO completes
Pot (445)
Flop Qs9d2d
Checks to us and we check to see a turn. (I normally bet here 90% of the time with some checks)
Turn 8s
Villain leads out for 225, other two players fold
Hero?
Do we flat and play rivers in position?
Do we look to get it in here for both value and protection from draws like KJs Jxs?
Keen to get some thoughts on this one
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10 Replies
I've 3b pre to essentially target CO and play heads up with them. They are fairly new to this game and it's evident they aren't properly rolled for these stakes.
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Prefer jamming. It will probably look pretty goofy/FOS to him and we should expect to be called pretty light. If we call turn, our plan should probably be to at least call any bet on any non J/T/9 river, and jam those rivers if checked to as well. Either option seems really good to me, slightly prefer to jam turn ourselves just to get money in when I think V will call off light.
I'm not 3-betting with Q8s unless I'm very confident this will get it HU. Since it's a private game, I'm not sure how well you knew your opponents before the hand was played.
Having said that, I really don't like the flop check when we 3-bet and then hit TP with an spr=2, especially since 1/2 the deck is bad for us.
AP I stick it in OTT but I start this hand by folding pre.
Pre is borderline in theory, very marginally good just considering CO's exploitabilities in a vacuum, but that EV very quickly gets wiped out considering you're playing in a 3-blind game where the blinds are doing this shit.
Flop is not only fine, you should be doing it much more than 10% of the time--unless you're like 1/5ping range, which is also probably fine.
Turn could go either way, but assuming your reads are right, you should just sit back and field the punt.
To be clear, you are not flatting to "play poker" on the river. Seemingly bad cards for us are but more bait to further tempt your donkament drooling friend to give you their stack. C'mon dealer, bring me your jacks, your tens, your spades and diamonds.
I don't do this pre, but it's your game. As played, I'm not sure what to do. The most obvious draw just got there and he bet into all of you. I'm not really keen to gii here. I might call/evaluate.
PRE - Do we have any reads on CO's opening range? I could go either way with Q8s on the BTN - raise, fold, or call. When we're only $1.1k eff, think I might lean towards a flat call, when a splashy V is in the blinds, and we'll be last to act post-flop, with a hand that is pretty marginal pre.
FLOP - I think we can c-bet small here, like $100-ish. We'd like to fold out some better QX, and deny equity from hands that can catch up. Checking back is going to make it harder for us to play later streets.
TURN - V's donking into three opponents, first to act, in a spot where the straddle and CO aren't necessarily uncapped just because they checked in flow on the flop. That's less likely to be a bluff or much worse for value, when the 8 brings in JT and 88.
Yeah, with two flush draws on board, V could have some bluffs, or be betting QX or 98 for value, but I don't think we want to raise here, when the hands that fold are all going to be worse, and the hands that call are either going to be better, or drawing to better.
V would have to be REALLY punty for me to want to raise here, simply because it sucks when he comes back over the top and we have to call. I think I'd just flat call, to keep all his bluffs and worse value in, and evaluate the river.
Our hand is a decent bluff-catcher, and V likes to bluff. If we're behind, we can still improve. The Qd and 8d will complete the FDFD that V might have. The 8c will look like a brick. The Qc might improve him to trips, and he'll never believe we checked back TP on the flop.
He could be betting thin with J9 / T9, and barrel off with a worse 2P on a river J or T, or try to rep a straight on a K or 7.
With all due respect, y'all clearly haven't played enough against med-high private game players who are "terrible at cash" and "punt hard" who've got some recent tourney binks burning a hole through their pocket.
The two flush draws and abundance of 1-card straight-draws are enough to make this a fistpump stackoff spot at this SPR against anyone with a pulse, but described player in particular can have A9hh here, and that's not even the bottom of their range...
I haven't played ANY med-high private games, period. No need to qualify further with a description of V.
Not sure if your post was directed at me, but...I think we're in agreement, so I'm not sure why it sounds like we're not. It seems I wasn't overly clear, but I was recommending we call, and let V continue to bet what I assume to be a pretty wide range of bluffs and gossamer-thin value.
I haven't played ANY med-high private games, period. No need to qualify further with a description of V.
Not sure if your post was directed at me, but...I think we're in agreement, so I'm not sure why it sounds like we're not. It seems I wasn't overly clear, but I was recommending we call, and let V continue to bet what I assume to be a pretty wide range of bluffs and gossamer-thin value.
Not directed at you specifically, just a vibe from the responses overall
