Line check 5/5/10

It's difficult, because you've already posted results, but there isn't much in a pro's range that bet/3! shoves flop on K54csc. With a limped flop.

Pot has 30 on flop. H checks, pro makes it 25, straddle gtfo. H 4Xs, and V ships? There's 155 in the pot and V slams in 965??!

I don't believe I've ever seen a 6X pot shove before. As much of a call monkey I am, I need more than a very improbable top 2 pair to call this off. You x-r way more than K5 here, right? I'd say it's a profoundly silly way to play bottom set---WTF is supposed to call off here besides 55 ap?---but you did call.

No, I think you could've gotten away from this. Sorry.

Dont post the results, it will biase people’s answers

I think you do better bet/calling the flop and check calling down. You only lose to sets and he can’t have KK and you block 55. This hand is too good to fold.

My 2 questions for you are rather elementary, but can be quite useful ,so bear with me: 1) What was your thinking when he shoved? 2)What do you think the pro's perception of you was like?

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Don't know what the theory says in 3-blinds games, but my gut feeling is that this is a fold pre from the 1st blind (I would complete, sometimes even raise, from the 2nd blind when folded to us).

As played, you may not be fist-pumping, but I don't see how you can get away from it, at 100x effective, even if it's a limped pot.
Maybe you could just call flop, considering that V bet close to pot into two opponents? Idk...

Better to post without results. The shove could be a strong draw, maybe 7c6c or Ac5c. This looks like an old school semibluff with a big draw. Not sure if he does it with a worse 2-pair. With a set, he was worried about a turn card like what hit. 44/55 is all you are losing to. There was only one combination of 55. He close to potted the flop and you repotted, so it looked like you weren't folding. Would have thought about it, not snap called.

With two clubs and two to a straight on board, V can have a lot of draws playing out of the BB in a limped pot. So, yeah, it's hard to get away from top 2P.

But we need to stop and think about it when V 3B jams for such a large size. He could have bottom 2P, but we partially block that. Our check raise announces that we have a very strong hand. V should have an extremely strong hand when he takes this line.

I dunno. I probably go broke here, too, but I'd also beat myself up about it afterwards, because it feels like we could avoid this.

We need 43.6% to call here. Which then leads to, what do we need V to have to profitably call this off? 55/44 vs K5s means H is a 85-15 dog. Ok, add 76cc/32cc. Still only gets H to 27%. Adding all 54o(?) gets us to 55%. Take them out, and put back 87cc, A2cc, A3cc, and H is still at 38%. I guess if you add some K4s, some 54s, this flips to a call, but dang, is that where people are ranging this V?

I cannot believe V knows H has top 2, and only top 2 but not 55 also, but that's the only thing I can think of for why such a gigantic raise. OP, was there an aggressive, bluffy, ego-challenging dynamic between you and V, to where V could shove like this and expect a call?

Weird hand.

rts

I would raise or fold pre, but that's just me.

yea pretty much

For 100 bb's eff I think we have to call once we raise 4x otf with top two.

Normally, I'd agree.

I think the difference here might be that it's a 3-blind, limped pot. With 100 straddles. With a normal 3x open, and even only 1 calls, not even 2, we have 6.5-7 bb in the pot vs 3bb. So the situation is in some ways more like a decision for 220-230 bigs vs 100, in whether or not we go broke calling off this Mongo raise or not. Though you're right ofc about the actual magnitude of the effective stacks.

7 bb pot on flop, 6 bb bet, x-raise to 24 bb, then a 91 bb shove (<4X), and I'm a bit more in call it off land.

Yeah, your thoughts are about what mine were, looking at this...

V's 3B screams "I have a set", but we block 55, so he's weighted towards 44. Can V know hero does NOT have 55? No, he can't, but maybe it doesn't matter, because if V started this thread, and we knew he had 44, we'd all be saying he's supposed to go broke if his opponent shows up with 55.

I don't want to say OP could get away from his hand, or that I could have, because we got the reveal in the OP, but...it's not a slam-dunk call with this action. We can debate whether or not V is supposed to raise pre out of the BB with 44 (and presumably 55), or if he ever shows up with K4, but when we see this flop action, that pre-flop range debate becomes somewhat pointless.

Like, we're here now. We limped in the SB with K5, got this flop, went for the check-raise, and V rips it in our face. Who gives a $hlt if he's supposed to raise pre with 55/44? He just 3B-jammed. What's he supposed to have here, if we don't think he's taking this line with worse for value, and his main bluffs are going to be 15-out combo-draws that are flipping with us?

If there's some dip$hlt macho-man dick-measuring meta game taking place between hero and V, okay, maybe that pushes this more one way or the other. But I struggle to remember the last time I saw this flop action and it wasn't 2P vs a set, or set-over-set, or 2P/set vs 15-out combo draw (let's throw 63cc into the mix while we're computating equities).

I wouldn't be giving V too many wheel ace combos, or worse 2P when he takes this line. Seems like hero is usually a huge underdog, only rarely ahead, and not often by very much.

Would have preferred it if hero bet out for half pot ($15), and proceeded with caution if V raised. No chance we're getting away from it on the flop with that line, but I definitely would have pumped the brakes on the 3c turn.

I admittedly haven’t studied all the 3-blind charts, but surely open completing the SB is bad? Like ever? Seems like a standard raise w K5s.

OTF, you don’t ever have to call a 400% pot-sized 3b and you don’t have to go broke in a limped pot with the 4th nuts (3rd effective nuts).

The one person ITT who’s actually putting villain on a range and doing equity calcs lays this pretty bare. At best (he’s 100% bombing all combo draws and somehow has worse hands sometimes) you’re barely getting good enough odds to squeak a profit on a call, and it’s more likely a pretty catastrophic call.

Okay so villain’s “aggressive”, I’d think we’d have more history to go off of here if he’s the type of person to 5/6p multiway and 4x ship over a PSR against someone who reps 2 of the 3 sets and literally every overpair with any two-pair+ and 12-out+ draw.

Obviously the risks of getting exploited by his aggression by folding here are also near nil. That’s like the risk of overfolding to someone who open ships 30bbs preflop. By the time he wins any mentionable money off you, you will easily be able to catch on and adjust.

I'm not really sure what to do pre, either. For me it would be very V dependent. Against weaker players you could call or do something weird like min raise. Against a good pro in the straddle, my best guess is to just try to steal the blinds.

Postflop, I'm getting stacked for sure. But interesting analysis to argue for getting away. I do think described V is going to be well aware of the fact that KK is out and might expect us to raise 55 or 44 some. If anything, I would expect him to over value this information and believe bluffs get through a ton.

I would guess that an aggro pro is thinking of 5x of clubs as something like the nuts here. You have like 1/4th of a combo of KK maybe. 1 combo 55. 2 combos K5s and people are advocating a fold for that. He also has a pair just in case you have Ac2c or something. On the rare occasions it's a FD vs a set, it's still not the end of the world especially for 100bb.

Also, I would lead the flop.

It's a bit like the favours brad booth v Phil ivey hand. In that case Brad had the combo draw and ivey folded to the massive shove

It's tough because you block value and unblock all the draws. In the other hand it was raised pre ( 3b I think) and ivey had kings

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