TPTK OOP multiway

I think I would check-raise here to go with it against the short stacks. Something like $150 and then jam a lot of turns.

I was thinking a flush draw from the CO or B would call more than that.

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I think that is definitely true. My thinking was setting up a comfortable turn spot.

If you checkraise to $200+, there will be a very small turn SPR which will put you in some weird spots on draw completing turns and broadway cards. Villains are also less likely to call with weaker pairs and straight draws for this price as well.

If you weren’t deeper with the HJ, you could almost just check/jam here.

If I checkraise to $150, and CO calls, then the pot on the turn will be $440, and CO will have $250 left.
If a diamond or a 9 hits the turn, then is check folding to a shove an option for me?
Did you mean that a flop check raise to $200+ basically commits the rest of my stack, which is weird because I don't have options for the turn play other than stacking off?

Our hand is so vulnerable -- and we could easily be behind now. People love calling pre w/ JT or they could have 66. I'm just not sure I'm ready to commit myself vs a seemingly OK player and an unknown with top/top on this board. I mean, what's he betting with?

Those of your who make it $150 - $200 and one of them shoves, are you calling? Are you committed on all turns -- many of which crush us?

I might call and save the pressure for the turn.

Despite the three checks, the only person who has potentially shown weakness (not checked in flow) is HJ (albeit he's the one with stack depth, which is very much in our favour). I dunno, just feels like TPTK OOP 5-way on JT6 isn't a hill I want to die on.

While playing this hand, I think I had some faulty thinking.

First of all, I read CO's $40 bet as a sizing tell for a weak hand by a weak player. In honesty, I hadn't seem him play much before this hand and it was after this hand that I concluded he was an "ok" player. Additionally after playing with him for a couple more hours, I see he is tight-passive.

Second of all, HJ is a dangerous player and I should have continued to think about him on the flop.

My faulty thinking was somewhat along the lines of: CO bet small with a draw or a weak hand, B called with a draw or weak hand. Wasn't really thinking about the HJ. So I check raised to $240 hoping to extract money from drawing hands. HJ folds. CO calls. B folds and later says he folded KQ. I think a smaller check raise is probably better. Just calling is also interesting.

Wow -- about as expected 😉 Glad it worked out.

Grunch:

First thought - the stacks seem pretty shallow for a 2/3/5 game. Generally I'd be playing a tighter range when shallow.

Second thought - after seeing the pre-flop action, is the game splashy? If so, and if our read is that HJ is LAG, I might just open-limp with AJs, expecting the HJ to raise fairly frequently when action gets to him. Also, if we are going to open, and the HJ already has $5 posted blind, I think we can open bigger.

PRE - If the game is splashy, and HJ already has $5 posted, I think we want to open to at least $25, or even $30.

FLOP - Checking from OOP is good. Think we can raise this small stab from the CO. Unlikely he's taking this small size with 2P+, or that the BTN is flatting with 2P+ on this fairly wet and connected board. I'd probably make it $180, but fold if we get raised.

Flatting with TPTK may not be terrible, but we're going to be guessing on a lot of turns and rivers. I think we don't mind taking it down right now.

If we raise and get called, we probably need to bomb brick turns. I don't think it makes sense to bet any diamond, ace, 7, or T. Maybe not even a 6, with no reads on the BTN.

Yeesh.

Raising to $240 over a $40 bet at this stack depth is going to put us in the blender almost no matter what happens next. CO only has $360 left. I mean, even if we x/r to $120, and he jams for $360 more, the pot will be $660, and we'll be getting a little over 1.8 to 1. Not sure I could fold for another $240, with so many potential draws that might be jamming here.

I dunno. If we just flat call flop, we're never getting away on the turn. I don't see what a min-click is going to do on the flop, other than possibly trigger him to 3B, at which point we probably could fold, depending on the sizing he takes. Maybe we can x/r to $100, and still get away if he 3B's.

This is sort of why I want to open-limp when the LAG posts blind from the HJ, and there are all these short-stacks. We limp, another limp, he opens for a big raise, and then when action gets back to us we can 3B with a strong hand in a spot where we're going to get credit for being pretty strong, and HJ is going to be pretty wide. If HJ opens and someone else 3B's, we can just fold it pre.

Yeah, I definitely wasn't locked in. I open raised to $20 and then noticed the LAG had posted $5 after being away from the table for a little while. So maybe he posted $5 plus another dead $5, to cover the missed blinds.

After I raised, I said "Ooops, I didn't see he posted, I would have raised more if I saw that."

I think I'm always playing AJs under the gun. The LAG pro who posted, is someone I don't want to play with OOP, so I'd rather open raise and see him fold, rather than limp-call his raise. A $25 open would have definitely been better and he would have been more likely to fold. I think he'd have a very strong range to 3-bet my utg open, due to our recent history together.

I wasn't suggesting we open-limp to limp-call from OOP. I was suggesting we open-limp to either limp-3B or limp-fold from OOP. I'm never open-limping to limp-call.

I very rarely open limp, but if I do, it's usually to limp-3B (and yes, I have bluffs in my limp-3B range), with the option to abort mission if there's a raise and a 3B before action gets back to me (or cold 4B if I'm limping in with KK+/AKs).

The dead post is a spot where LAG players will either attack the dead money, or defend their post too wide. So, here, when we open from EP, and he's posted blind from LP, he's going to be continuing a lot. When he flats, he's improving the pot odds for the players in the CO and BTN to come along. When he raises, it'll usually be for a bigger size.

When he 3B's, it's either going to be big, because our open has already been called before action gets to him, or big because he doesn't want the CO or BTN or blinds coming along. Even if no one called our raise, and he just 3B's us to 3x, and it folds back around, we'll still be OOP with a hand that is easily dominated by AK/AQ, or unlikely to get called by lower PP's when the flop comes out with over-cards to his PP.

Are we going to 4B with AJs there? I'm guessing not. And when we don't, we're capping our range and going to the flop OOP.

As an alternative, if we open-limp, we get to see what everyone else does before action gets back around to us. If no one raises, fine, we have a well-disguised hand that can cooler someone if we get the right flop, with a higher SPR. If action limps to him and he raises, we can put in a 3B, in a spot where we'll have a strong range (because most people don't have bluffs when they limp-3B). If he raises, and someone else 3B's him, we can just fold.

The problem with opening from EP in a game like this is that the HJ is the only player with a stack deep enough to threaten us, or feel threatened by us, and he's got position on us. He can flat call, see the flop multi-way, and decide if he wants to continue or not. Meanwhile we have to play the rest of the hand from OOP, as the PFR, either with him involved (when he's probably got a strong hand), or without, facing a bunch of short stacks and a shallow SPR.

Even if we raise to $25 or $30 pre, he's going to be involved a lot. Even when he's not, the problem remains - everyone else at the table has a short stack, and we'll be OOP with a low SPR, in a splashy game where our LP opponents are calling too wide, and getting to the flop with almost ATC.

Like, just look at the action here - we raise, he calls, bringing the CO and BTN along with 66 and KQ. They're never 3B'ing our UTG open, and never folding PP's or Broadway combos. When we check the flop, he's mostly going to be checking behind, with his entire range, whether he connected or not. For crying out loud, we even got the OMC in the SB coming along here.

When the CO or BTN stabs at the pot, we're in really terrible relative position, because the one opponent who can really put a hurt on us gets to see what we do as the PFR when action comes back around to us.

My strat in this game would be to mostly play smaller pots OOP, but when we do get involved from OOP, put the LAST bet in with a 3B or 4B, not put the FIRST bet in, when we know we'll mostly be playing multi-way and OOP post.

Ok, I am going to make a note to try expanding my UTG limp-3B range, and see how that goes.