Rough seas with whale in 4-bet pot

Your reads mostly focus on him calling and chasing, which don't seem very relevant to this hand, where what we need to know is his 3-betting range as well as his betting tendencies post-flop.

AP, I'm snap calling the river, if not actually raising.

Shove the river

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Your 4B size pre is too big. You should make it $100-$125, at most.

Strange line by V. Definitely not folding. Only raise size that makes sense is all in.

Either jam or call.

To answer AF:

-he almost never 3-bets at 1/3, at 2/5 he does a bit more
-he cold calls 3-bets all the time
-he VPIPs literally 95-100%
-so about 100/60/3-5
-he overvalues hands including top pair
-his check/calling range postflop is absolute trash
-he often donks made hands, these can be anything from weak top pair or 2nd pair to the mortal nuts
-the turn and river really elucidate his hand strength, he sharpens up and doesn't get nearly as out of line on these later streets
-he sees me as a very nitty premiums only player

If he's got a better hand, he's just got a better hand. His line looks bluffy AF. We can't fold.

Shove.

I'd probably raise the flop or at least jam the turn - flop is super drawy/connected and there's a lot of turn cards that you're going to make a mistake on especially given how he plays. As played on the river I would think he rarely calls a jam - the flop had so many draws that I doubt he has anything. I would tank jam the river or however you feign weakness - it was such a drawy flop that either he has the draw and snap folds or will think you were drawing and should call off.

Suddenly I'm wondering if Banana is going to tell us he jammed and this guy snapped with A5cc.

So my thought process was his donk out on QT6FD is a made hand, I was right, hoping it was AQ or KQ..

Result:

I'd also like to point out how well I run these days - card dead for an hour, finally pick up KK against a guy VPIPing 99% and he has AA..

You're supposed to go broke AA vs KK. You did well to keep some of your stack.

Next time, don't 4B so large, and you'll keep more.

If Villain is calling ALL the time, shouldn't we make it EVEN larger with KK as a pure exploit? We could 7x to $320 and then have a 1.5 SPR on the flop. If V is inelastic to sizing, we should take advantage.

How far down in our range are we going before we don't 4B so large? How much stronger is V's range when he calls a large 4B? If we think he's calling ALL the time, why not jam?

If you jam preflop, he would certainly call here with aces.

Not very far at all. Maybe QQ. This is a pure exploit. I’d be 4betting small (2.5x) with AK/AQ, for instance, primarily to get HU deep IP v a whale.

I agree 110%

Why not open to 30 if everyone is still giving action?

Jamming river happily.

I think you guys misunderstood my point. The hypothetical question was "if V is calling ALL the time, why not size up with our 4B?". Taking that question to its logical conclusion - why not jam?

Obviously he's calling with AA if we jam. But if V folds anything, especially if he folds everything worse, that puts the lie to "he's always calling," which is why we shouldn't jam.

If we open to 15, and V 3B's to 45, and we jam for 1200, is he really calling ALL the time, or ONLY with AA? The point is there's a range of 4B size from min-click to all-in jam. At a certain size, our 4B is probably too big.

Larger 4B sizes force V to continue with a stronger range. Smaller 4B sizes force V to continue with a weaker range.

When we're starting 1200 eff, and hero 4B's to 175, I think it's too big, because the only 5B size that makes any sense is all-in. That 4B size doesn't put enough pressure on V to decide if he wants to 5B with AA, or QQ, or if he just wants to call with JJ/AK/AQ.

Obviously I limp in, but this deep more reason to juice preflop.

I like offering poor 8:1 IO preflop, especially when I'm going to be setting up an SPR where I probably can't fold postflop. Which means about $200. $175 is in the ballpark but I just think we can go that smidge bigger (especially since he's never folding).

SPR is slightly less than 3, we haz an overpear, and we're up against the table whale who could easily have worse hands (AQ/KQ/etc.) that are never folding. If he's outflopped us for this prefop price, nice hand sir. Board is super drawy, I think I would actually shove the flop.

We only have a ~PSB left for the turn. I'm jamming it in. I think flatting here is pretty bad, no? We're committed in a huge pot (are we thinking of folding to a 2/3 PSB on the river?) so letting this guy possibly get there for an amazing price seems pretty bad to me.

Like your other thread, I can only assume the river question is whether to call versus jam? My guess is he typically jams better, so we're probably losing value versus AQ/KQ and now even versus QT by not jamming.

Having said all that, ask me the last time I got in $1200. I'm pretty sure I've never done that in 6410 hours of 1/3 NL as our game simply doesn't play this big. So I'll admit I'm a little out of my lane here.

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG

What's the logic behind hero's line here?

Our read is that V is fairly maniacal pre, but basically a whale post. We know he's RFI'ing and calling too wide. But what do we think his range looks like when he 3B's out of the BB, and then calls a pretty large 4B?

OP's follow-up read is that V almost never 3B's at 1/3, but will cold-call 3B's all the time; he over-values top pair; his check-calling range is trash; he donks made hands, from thin value to the nuts; but he doesn't get OOL when he barrels later streets.

Do we think his range is REALLY all that wide getting to the flop? Are we giving him QQ/TT/66/QT, plus all the combo draws, straight draws, and flush draws? Are we never giving him AA?

The read indicates he likes to chase his draws, by check-calling bets post. But what's he doing when he donks flop for 1/2 pot, barrels turn for 1/4 pot, and then 1/4 pots it on the river? Is that a weak top pair, an over-pair, a draw, 2P, a set?

OP played his hand like a bluff-catcher once V starts his donk-line on the flop, which seems like the correct line. V's sizing looks like thin value, or maybe occasionally a weak attempt at a bluff. If V could be betting better or worse for value and possibly but only occasionally bluffing, wouldn't the best play be to let him continue, not raise?

Other than taking too large a size with his 4B pre, I think OP played this one fine. All he's doing by 4B'ing larger is funneling V's range towards stronger hands. Raising post-flop just makes V's continue range even stronger.