Poor Runout or Poor Play?

Never calling river hoping for a chop. Lots of flushes in Vs range, as well as random Js.

I'm ambivalent about pre, as we are likely going to be MW OOP either way. Having the initiative would be nice, but bloating the pot with a medium PP OOP isn't a great result. Flop is fine, and I guess I call turn too, given the nice price to try to boat up.

PRE - I guess limping in the SB is okay in this set-up. But generally I prefer to open, if only to be able to rep a stronger range post.

FLOP - OOP to three opponents on this super connected board, I'd just check, confident someone is going to stab at it if they have any piece. Depending on the bet size, we can call or raise.

TURN - yuck. Just check-call and pray to boat up.

RIVER - seems like this is just a brick. We were already losing to Jx and flushes. Suppose it's possible V is trying to bet us off a chop, but this sizing makes that seem less likely. Looks like he's just going for value. Pretty trivial fold.

Yuck. Vs. described player it's just a fold. Rest of the hand seems fine.

Preflop seems bad. Build the pot with a good hand.

sorry i dislike every street except turn

raise pre. maybe if there was no rake pre could be a limp but even then would be mildly bad.

CR flop

turn ok

fold river.

On a Sunday afternoon game that is "loose pf, but plays much tighter post," I'm not so convinced that someone will bet flop in a limped hand. It checking through would be a disaster.

Valid, I s'pose.

I'd expect anyone with Tx to bet here, and with three opponents behind us, in a limped pot, I'd expect there to be enough 8x or Jx that might stab at it, or PP's betting for protection.

It's also kind of a disaster if we limp in with 99, and someone shows up with 86 or J8. We're mostly guessing here, hoping to boat up with a flopped set, which is what happens when we don't raise pre and get this flop.

I don't love any of our options on the flop. Whether we bet or x/r, we're doing it thin. I wouldn't hate turning our hand into a bluff-catcher by check-calling flop and turn, once we limp pre.

if no one bets the flop i doubt you have a value bet on the flop worth potting. given that you got two callers that suggests to me that you would have been far better off check raising. i highly doubt that "missing out" on a $20 flop bet when nobody has anything or something like A8 would call a bet but not bet for you counts as a disaster in this tiny pot.

Garick i respect your play but i think you play a little bit too old school, in the land of "definites" rather than "indefinites," and "me have hand me bet pot and me no have hand me check" land.

pre is what I would do by default with a button straddle, unless BTN very often just checks ... and even then can be fine if BTN will call a lot anyway.

Flop is the opposite, if you are going to lead this large on this board just raise pre.
I don't mind leading something, but it has to be much smaller so people with slightly worse can raise or with a lot worse can call (like KT is very far behind).

Rest of hand is fine.

You can maybe bet turn for 20-40 yourself, but you are more likely to get two pair to call than a 6 to fold ... maybe still true on a brick river.

It's possible you are chopping the river but not enough. Bluff raising seems insane (mainly because you'd be bluffing 100% of range).

Fair enough. I'm not convinced that low-stakes games have changed as much as theory has evolved, so calling me "old school" is likely appropriate, at least in games that haven't been described as aggressive. That said, it's not a case of definites, but rather of what seems more appropriate to me in the described situation. FWIW, I generally would not bet as much as pot, but given the small size of the pot and the sopping wet board, I don't mind it.

Results -

H made a relatively trivial fold. H never got a reveal but was pretty confident he made the right choice. Thanks for the feedback