AJ TPTK in a Multiway Pot
5/5
~$700 effective
I switched tables three orbits ago, so many players are new to me. Most are unknown, but the table dynamics seem loose.
Hero(UTG) A♥J♥ raises to $20, MP calls, CO calls, BU calls, BB calls
Flop($100) J♦ 5♠ 4♠
x, Hero bets $60, MP folds, CO calls, BU calls, BB folds
Turn($280) 2♣
Hero bets $100, CO calls, BU calls
River($580) T♣
Hero($500 left) - ?
I'm pretty concerned about that river - I hate almost every option here. How do you guys usually play this hand street by street?
In theory, the flop should be a smaller bet since my opponents have the nut advantage, but I guess that doesn't really matter when we're up against very bad players. In that case, it’s probably best to just go for max value.
But on the turn, I went from a 60% bet on the flop to a 30% bet. Feels like that sizing is off. Any thoughts?
5 Replies
When we're multi-way, with more opponents behind us than in front of us, I would just range check flop, to let someone stab at it. Their bet size will often give us an indication of their hand strength, and we'll have some info related to the position of the bettor, if anyone raises, etc.
Theory says our c-bet sizes should be smaller in multi-way pots, like less than 1/3. On the other hand, if we're mostly range-checking, and infrequently betting, I think we could go larger, like full pot. So I think either very small or very big would be better than 60% pot.
The turn is a weird card in that it might interact with opponents' ranges in some way, but also gives us the wheel draw to go with TPTK. Someone could have out-flopped us or improved to a better hand, so I think I'd check for pot control here, not bet.
River is a weird spot, when we're still multi-way. Our hand doesn't seem strong enough to bet three streets. I don't really want to stack off with just TPTK, against two opponents' ranges, when those ranges are going to include some 2P combos.
I don't like how we got here. I think I might check-evaluate, with plans to call up to a 1/2 pot size bet, but fold if there's a bet and a raise. If there's a small bet and a call, it's close, and whether or not we call or fold is going to be table-read dependent.
I’m mostly checking range on the flop with this many players but against a loose passive table, there is some merit in betting for value. Sizing here is theoretically large. Jx will likely be inelastic but $60 may lose hands 77-TT. FDs will call any size but when a spade falls we just lose more.
AP I like a turn crai. I would consider this turn a brick. No credible 2 pair combos, not worried about 63. A3ss is about the only hand that gets there but that’s one combo and it will often raise flop. People play more honestly multi-way so I suspect TPTK is the best hand and nobody is likely slowplaying a set. If we check turn and it checks through it’s not disastrous. This is mostly a 2 street hand multi-way with an SPR>6. We would value bet/fold rivers that weren’t a K, Q or spade.
AP we are only losing to JT and TT. I think I c/eval. Only button is apt to bluff in position if checked to. We may lose a bet to KJ/QJ that checks back but so be it. Too little behind to b/f.
I think you should go bigger OTT - getting KJ/QJ/spades to call incorrectly is where the value is. On the river I would bet somewhat on the smaller side as now spades of course won't call so we're left with worse Jx. I think jamming they fold KJ/QJ a lot.
Yeah, betting $25 (1/4 pot) on the flop and 3/4 pot on the turn seems like the most reasonable line here.
River bet $175/fold or x/call small bet
Interesting hand.
I have no idea what the optimal strategy is 5-ways.
Naively, I would say bet small otf and large turn, which is somehow extrapolated from a HU scenario.
But, do we really want to bet like 3/4 pot into 2-3 people ott, just to be left with less than a psb otr? Idk...
Overall, I do not hate your line. Now you might continue with the smallish bets and make it 150-200 otr.
Yes, you rep exactly what you have, but as long as Vs do not bluff raise, that is ok-ish.
