Thin value or slow down against drunk fish?
This was during a Saturday 1/2 night session. Two loud fish at the table. V1 looks like a tourist who cannot stop talking with malfunctioning volume control, V2 looks like his local friend who has lost a few buy-ins, and they enjoy playing against each other. All other players are tighter than average, quiet, waiting for a chance to get money from the drunk fish.
Hero moved to this table 20 minutes ago with 500. Hero is female, 30s.
V1 has a stack of 350.
V2 has about 130.
Other reads:
Prior to this hand, hero flat called 9Tss from sb, single raise pot, 5 handed. Checked around on a Js Js 6c flop. Hero then led a half-pot size bet when an off-suite 3 landed on the turn, V2 called without closing the action. Hero gave up on a brick river, V2 checked back and won with 34o.
-----OTTH-----
V1 opened to 10 from UTG.
All folded till hero seeing AhKd on the CO.
Hero chose to flat, because BTN and SB were both very tight, and hero did not want to push the two fish from early position out of the pot. In the case if SB chose to squeeze, we still had the option of a back-raise.
BTN and SB folded.
V2 called from BB.
3-way to see the flop.
Flop (31)
Ac 6s 6h
V2 checked, V1 checked, hero bet 18, V2 called. V1 folded.
Turn (67)
2c
V2 checked, with about 110 behind.
Now, should hero target Ax for thin value, or we slow down?
If we open up the betting, how do we react to V2's potential check-jam?
If we check back / bet and get a call, what's our plan on the river in position:
- if another 2 lands on the river
- if any backdoor flush hit the river
- if the river is any seemingly bricks
I normally stay away from drunk players because they are purely annoying, so kind of inexperienced to alter my play to exploit them.
Any advice is appreciated.
3 Replies
All folded till hero seeing AhKd on the CO.
Hero chose to flat, because BTN and SB were both very tight, and hero did not want to push the two fish from early position out of the pot.
I never understand this logic. You only have AKo and you want the entire world to see a flop with you rather than potentially taking down the pot or getting HU IP against the fish with a decent sized stack
OK...you got your wish to play against one of the fish, and now you're thinking of doing anything on the turn but getting the chips in with an SPR of <2?
PRE - seems like a pretty standard 3B, regardless of what we think of the players left to act.
We'd like to get this HU and IP with the fish, not invite the tight players or anyone else to join the party.
FLOP - Either check back, bet small (1/3 pot), or over-bet. This not-quite 2/3 pot sizing on such a static board doesn't really accomplish anything.
Checking allows V to start betting worse hands on the turn. Betting small should induce V to raise with 6x, and at least keeps the SPR manageable if he decides to trap. Over-betting gets us max value from his worse AX combos, possibly triggers him to spaz raise with 6x, or at least should narrow his range to Ax or 6x.
Since we didn't 3B pre, and either V can have 6x, I think I'd either check back or bet small, not over-bet. I might also check back or bet small even if we had 3B pre, if only because I wouldn't expect either V to fold combos like 76, 65, or A6.
TURN - As played on previous streets, we still have no idea what V has. I think I'd bet 1/2 pot here, to keep his worse AX in, and possibly induce a raise from 6x. If we get raised, it seems like a pretty easy fold, unless you're suggesting V might check-jam worse for value, which seems pretty unlikely.
As for the river - another 2 would mostly be a brick. If he's getting there with 2x, he's just getting paid. If the river is a flush card and he checks again, I think we can bet. Again, if he gets there with a BDFD, he's just getting paid. Ditto for any 5, 4, or 3 that might make him a straight.
Actually, I'm not really worried about what the river card is. I'd be more concerned about his river action. If he donk-jams, we'll be in the blender, no matter what the card is. If he checks, I'm just betting for value again, expecting to get looked up by random AX.
Just 3bet pre vs. these guys. That's the easiest way to get the money in.
As played, bet $50 to commit him. Would be awful for it to check through.
