1/2 - rivered 2 pair after sustained aggression
£1/2 NL (8 handed)
No straddle in this hand
HJ Hero (£550)
BTN V1 (c. £500?)
Hero is dealt KQdd
3 limps to hero, Hero raises to £16. 5 callers including V1 on button.
I have recently moved to the table and V1 has won most hands at showdown, including calling down in position with 89 on 8xxx9 to crack AA and A6 on 579X8 to beat AKo. Fairly active and also called down with naked Ax FD, rivered top pair to beat a worse 1 pair hand. Not overly aggressive.
Flop Qx8s6s
Checked to Hero and I lead for £45. Only V1 calls.
Thoughts - it has been the type of table where lots of people are happy to limp/call to see flops but rarely is there sustained multiway aggression or action post flop with most playing fit-or-fold. I am betting here to deny some equity/free cards for those who may be drawing and for value from worse 1 pair hands. I haven't been 3 bet pre-so happy I am ahead here.
Turn 9s
Hero checks, V1 bets £55, Hero calls.
Initial thoughts - the worst card in the deck for Hero and smashes V1 preflop/flop calling range. Hoping we are up against Asx or 4-to-straight holdings with the intention of folding any river that completes flush/straight/is an A.
River: Kx
Hero checks, V bets £150.
What is V1 taking this line with that allows us to find a call?
6 Replies
With this table dynamic I would raise bigger pre.
Need to tread lightly with TP 5 way. If in EP I would check. Since you are second last to act, I think we need to bet but I would bet smaller.
AP, the small turn bet is enticing but we can be drawing dead here and will often have to face a river bet not knowing where we stand whether improved or unimproved. I prob just fold. I think the naked As would size up to increase semibluff fold equity.
AP I like a small block bet/fold OTR. We have some thin value vs other 2pair and V would prob only raise nut flush. He may have to just flat with sets and straights.
I'd probably raise to 20 preflop, but local customs may differ over there.
Flop: You will get some differing views around your c-bet size. I assume the pot size is roughly 100. 45 seems okay to me with sticky V behind on BTN, FD on board. I think he would raise his 66 here and maybe his 88.
Turn: I agree with Hero x. V seems to be pricing a draw with 55 into ~190 pot. We cannot raise, given that V has 75s and of course some made flushes. That said, I think V should be taking a polar sizing with most of his value here which is vulnerable to our AsX redraws. For sure his small flushes should bet bigger. Maybe he takes this sizing with 98s or JT.
River: pot is ~300. We get 3-1 to call his 150 bet. I cannot find a fold here with top 2 pair. Obviously he has all the small flushes and 75s and JT. We beat 86, 98, Q8s, Q9. He should probably check behind with QJ and 77 - stuff that turned more equity. It's a tough spot, but I cry/call as I think we get a good enough price.
I don't like the cbet 5-ways. You don't need to build a pot this deep and you hate half the deck for turn cards (A, ♠, 8, 6, 9, T, 7, even a 5). I'd check hoping BTN checks through and see a blank turn like a 2♥ before putting in more money.
Turn is fine, sizing is so small you have no option but to call.
River I think is a call. You're too high in your range getting about 3-1. I think you're going to get shown a baby flush or JT a lot.
I don't like the cbet 5-ways. You don't need to build a pot this deep and you hate half the deck for turn cards (A, ♠, 8, 6, 9, T, 7, even a 5). I'd check hoping BTN checks through and see a blank turn like a 2♥ before putting in more money. Turn is fine, sizing is so small you have no option but to call.River I think is a call. You're too high in your range getting about 3-1. I
This is something I am debating with myself recently (ref your point of building a pot this deep).
Are we happier taking a check/call line OOP most times in these kind of spots when 200bb+ deep?
Am I potentially putting myself in tougher spots by buying in for 250bb vs 150bb (example?)
You can do a lot of different things on the flop, but random half pot is probably close to the worst. Would much prefer x/shove and that's not the first line I'd take.
Much easier to see wtf is happening with pot sizes on each street:
Flop: $80
Turn: $170
River: $280
Turn kind of sucks, but also looks a lot like semi-bluff city, the big problem is if he fires river with worse a lot. Also 9s is at least better than Ts or 4s, probably better than Ks or Qs too, so far from the worst card.
I would probably sigh call river, but it doesn't look great when he sizes up ... hopefully some worse two pair and it's not like fish playing any2 can hit with 75/flushes every hand.
Yes, please put pot sizes on each street.
Go bigger pre if they are calling so much. Check flop or bet close to pot -- make them pay to draw.
Versus a guy who likes to check/call, he has gotten very aggressive, and I think we are in trouble. I fold the river. We lose not only to a flush, but to straights and sets.
