Hand analysis

I didn't, but neither did V. That's why I said less than 10%, which in the real world is taking this line very rarely . The point of studying with solvers imo is not to copy them perfectly with hands and frequencies, it's to draw the basic concepts that can be fit into your game. Both because it's impossible to replicate and because our opponents aren't perfect gto opponents.

The basic concept here is grabbing a hand at the bottom of your range as a bluffing candidate and pushing it like the nuts. The solver often grabs 22/33 or sometimes it might use a hand like 53s. If the range is wide enough there might be a handful of hands at varying frequency, which I find easier to consolidate into one hand in practice. Which hand is being used will vary by solver and is sensitive to opening range assumptions.

For the frequency, well if you start nodelocking that H is flatting AA pre, over x/r the turn with hands like AA - the solver is going to amp up the 3! turn with a lot of it's range. 5c5x is definitely better to have more outs against some hands that might call turn. So certainly not precise, but then this is a $1/$3 game. Erring on the side of aggression is usually rewarded because so many players haven't learned how to exploit over aggression.

I'm just saying I wouldn't write off Vs competence based off of one hand, where V voluntarily showed which IME means this line is something V does rarely, and it has some kernels of theory. Perhaps not precisely applied and we can only guess how much was intentional exploit. At least I can construct a logical thread to Vs line. I can't construct a logical thread with Hs line even though I'm talking to him.

This hand is so far off the rails from the jump that I don't see how a solver is going to lead us somewhere the answer is "check-raise turn and call river, because V has lots of low PP's with no club as bluffs in this line."

Both hero and V apparently decided they were going to play "street" poker. Hero decided first, when he opted to slow-play AA pre and check-raise on a terrible turn card. Then V decided he was the true king of the streets when he 3B the turn with pure donkey balls on a plate. He proved his street-poker supremacy when he jams river.

V just out-played hero. Hero gets credit for the assist.

If V had an actual hand, like QQ, JJ, or AK, or a busted draw, or total air, hero would have gotten all his money, except when V doesn't continue to bluff, because he makes a hand that beats AA after seeing a cheap flop and cheap turn.

Solvers can't beat these guys. Only the street and the deck can.

Dude, relaxxxx....from your tone, you sound like a guy who is having a tough time understanding that there might be more than one way to play this game. Or maybe you're still steaming from a "bad player" like me stacking you at your last outing...? Brunson, Dwan, Hellmuth, Ivey...all great players, all very different. When I watch Rick Saloman play, it baffles that that guy walks away with any chips, but millions in winnings shows something very, very different so you have no choice but to respect his approach. He doesn't play the cards...he plays the human and it makes him scary to be in a hand with.

Anyway, in my hand, yup it was a bluff...I sniffed it out early...but if all it takes is for him to produce a club to win it...then I chose to respect that and let it go. Again, this is just not higher math with differential equations.

As someone who has played sports semi-professionally, the easiest guys to go against are the predictable ones. And if everyone is doing the same thing, making the same decisions, following the same patterns, then skating to where the puck is going to be is not that difficult. It's the guys who zig when you thought they should have zagged that make it tough. Sure, sometimes you're wrong, but as long as you're right more than you're wrong, then the bottom line is that you win in the end.

So, by your count you played perfectly (although everyone on this forum disagrees -- still not sure why you bothered posting) but lost to 55 because you sniffed his bluff on the turn but then chickened out because a fourth club came, but you didn't bother shoving when you were ahead in case the fourth club came, which you knew you were going to be scared of? And then he totally owned you? Well played.

Dude, stop, get down from your soapbox, and think through what your plan was for this hand, keeping the ultimate goal in mind.

You started out with the best possible hand. The goal should be to get your opponent's entire stack, or at least make the most money possible, preferably while taking the least risk possible.

But what was your plan? It seems the answer was to let him bluff it all off to you. And, there are some problems with that plan...

1. You're starting out $2k eff in a 1/3 game. Yes, there's a $5 straddle on, and V raised to 7x, but that's still only $35. When you flat call, and since you seem to like math, start doing some on the pot size on every street.

Assume that your V pots it on flop, turn, and river, as a best-case scenario (truly a best case, since he didn't get anywhere near potting it, ever, going 2/3 on flop and less than 1/2 pot on turn). So we think he's betting $70 on the flop, $210 on the turn, and $630 on the river. That's $910. How did you plan to get the other $1100?

2. Picking up on the above, at some point, you HAVE to raise, if you want to get his whole stack. Wouldn't it be better to start raising pre-flop, when A) we know we have the best possible hand, B) V is likely to be most inelastic and want to continue to the next street, and C) our actions and V's actions will give us a wealth of info we can use to help define his range on future streets?

3. The relative value of your hand went down on each street, making consecutive each street an increasingly WORSE spot to raise. 3B'ing pre would be ideal. Check-raising flop would be good. Check-raising turn is going to be torching a good chunk of the time (so, not good). By the river, your hand has completely run out of value.

4. The 9-high, two-tone flop is one of the most wet and dynamic boards you could get. Literally, no matter what the run-out is, it's going to A) complete a flush, B) complete a straight, C) pair the board, D) bring an over-card, or E) some combination thereof.

If your plan was to let V bluff off all his money, your plan should have changed as soon as you saw this flop texture. You should have realized that you weren't going to like ANY run-out that didn't improve your hand, and thus make it harder for you to get paid. It seems like you didn't realize that until the turn, "Uh-oh, this board is getting ugly," but you realized it too late.

If your read is that V is a spewy-bluffy LAG-tard, just 3B him pre. If your read is correct (and since you profess to be good at this game, we hope it is), he shouldn't fold, especially not when he raises to a whopping 7x the straddle. He clearly has a hand he wants to play. Just make it $175, a mere 5x his open, and see what happens to the pot size.

The pot would be $350 going to the flop, literally 7x where it was when you just flat call. It should be easy (or at least easier) to get the rest in post-flop. Just c-bet for full pot or over-bet, and you're well on your way. Alternatively, you can check-raise flop. Even if he only bets 1/3 pot, that's $115 to $120. You can come over the top for $450-$600, and jam most turns.

Your logic doesn't even make sense. "All he needs is a club, and I have to respect that". Yet he didn't have a club. He basically had air. And a club wasn't all he needed.

Yeah, after we see his 55, we know he needed a 5 to make a better hand, but we didn't know that before the river. He could have a better hand on the flop, or on the turn. By the river (see point 4, above), there's literally no card that can come that we'll really love, unless it's the Ad, and even then - he might still have us beat when he takes this line.

His range is more than just club draws (obviously). Apparently it's super-wide, such that any run-out could potentially improve him to a hand that beats yours. He can thus bluff ANY run-out, and credibly rep any hand that beats an over-pair.

He didn't even need to make a better hand. He got you to fold the best hand, by doing EXACTLY what you thought he'd do (he bluffed).

For a guy who was supposed to bluff off all his money, he sure didn't start out looking like that was the path he was taking. His c-bet was a bit large, but his turn bet looked weaker than an anorexic bowler. He was bluffing, but so were you when you check-raised turn, leading to his butt-puckering 3B, followed up by his river jam.

He out-played you on every street, but the street that matters most is the one where you tried to put him to the test, and he passed, with flying colors.

"I'm just going to make a fair catch when this guy punts off 400bb's to me over three streets, even on a super wet board, because I'm a soul-reading winner who can sniff out bluffs, among the all-time greats, like Brunson, et al," is the most cockamamie nonsense you could spout anywhere, especially given the line V took (not all that punty until he 3B the turn), your actions, and the reveal.

Comparing yourself to Ivey or Dwan is just the bat-$hlt icing on this crazy cake.

Geez...you almost seem to take all of this personally. Look...if you're not winning, then maybe you need to try something different. I get it...it burns you that a guy who played a hand like that could actually be winning in the long run when it sounds like you're not doing so well, but I don't know what else to tell you. If it makes you feel better, I could lie and give you some narrative about how I donk off thousands every week and that I'm the biggest fish at every table, but it just hasn't been my experience. Your other option is to chalk it all up to variance and believe that I'm the luckiest player alive. Either way, do whatcha gotta do, amigo, but my recommendation would be to not be so predictable. It's incredibly exploitable :-).

I think the main thing that irks me about this thread is that I didn't spot from the beginning that it was a massive troll.

Did you play last night (Friday 4/18) at gate city?

Indeed I was! You would know that either because you saw this hand play our or maybe you heard me describing it...? So much for the theory from another poster that I must be a "troll" on this site lol.

Anyway, for anyone on this thread who feels like I would be easy pickins', you'll find me at Encore on Tuesday at the 5/10 table. I plan to be there between about 1-9PM.

not 3 betting preflop with AA in this spot is such a massive error i see no point in discussing the flop

You could be the biggest crusher in the world, but that doesn't change the fact that you played this hand horribly.

TTHRIC