what the donk?!

This is actually about the worst flop for you, short of seeing an ace.

Consequently, I think we should probably be betting smaller on the flop.

The problem for you on the turn is the kid has both the nut and range advantage, so I actually like his donk bet. He has all the sets, many/most of the 2-pairs, and some combo draws. I really don't know what you should do here.

Tough. I think I let this one go. Smacks of a good made hand 2p+ running scared.

Possible some big combo draw which has good equity.

Maybe check back this flop.

Bet smaller flop, fold turn.

PRE - raise larger. The kid likes to gamble, and we have position.

FLOP - check back or c-bet smaller, like 1/3 pot. There's no reason to come out blasting on this very wet and dynamic board.

TURN - gross. I hate all our options here.

He can have all the strong hands. I want to think he also has bluffs here, but I don't think he's bluffing anywhere near often enough to make a call +EV. More than likely he's bombing the river and we'll have to fold. Better to fold now, I think.

What would his bluffs be? T9dd, 77, 65ss, JTss/JTdd, A9dd, maybe A8ss/A6ss. Not too many low stakes players are going to start turning hands with reasonable showdown value into a bluff, much less by donking with them, rather than check-raising for max FE.

Yeah, I think we can fold here, and feel okay about it.

I'm actually fine with the hand so far. I like the bigger c-bet on this board -- make them pay for their draws.

Turn is pretty gross. Have you paid attention to any of his other hands? Have you been folding to pressure?

W/o more info, it probably is a fold, but I hate it.

This feels a little MUBSy to me, but then again I come from limit where it's shoot first and ask questions later.

A three-rag flop should get me to tread cautiously?

And checking back? Letting two villains get a free card? lol. I'm willing to entertain that I may have gone a little too big, and I'm also aware that I don't have the K♠ in my hand, but why am I afraid of this board?

You need to reread the responses in this thread, and if necessary, look up the definitions of "nut advantage" and "range advantage."

This board is bad for you because it heavily favors the preflop caller, of which there are two. You lack both the range and nut advantage. When we lack both of these components we should probably be doing a lot of checking. If we are betting I think we go small as others have suggested.

I don't see much merit in betting big to "charge draws" because those draws are calling anyway and all of the bigger combo draws and nutted draws actually prefer you to bet larger so they can have a lower SPR and bigger pot for when they hit.

You are really in a position where you should be looking to control the pot I think. If you get a favorable turn card and they both check then you can start extracting value and/or realizing your equity. Also you can peel off a turn bet much easier because the pot is smaller. What's happened though is you've bloated the pot against ranges that connect better with this board than yours does as the preflop 3bettor.

As played I would fold the turn pretty fast. He can have draws and semibluffs but a lot of them have high equity against KK and we are overall performing poorly against his entire range. We also unblock spade draws which can have a lot of equity against us.

I could be wrong but this is just how I see it.

My first instinct was to fold, but then I blurted out, more to myself than him, "If you have me beat, why didn't you check/raise me?" My gut beat out my brain after a quick tank and I announced "all-in."

He didn't snap call, which was excellent, but he did call and asked if I wanted to run it twice. The river was 2♠ and I was seriously sweating, but he mucked without showing.

I shove but not thrilled about it.

Edit: oh I see you also shoved. Good move. I agree most people are check raising here with made hands and his previous play makes it more likely the turn brought him equity but not a better hand than kings. If he has 2 pair still have 8 outs to river

Nice hand.

If I had to guess, I'd put him on a hand like JJ/TT, or possibly 77 that turned the OESD. Also possibly some sort of combo draw that picked up backdoor diamonds.

You won the max, which is good, obviously, but be wary of letting the result color your view of the hand. That very connected 9-high flop is about as wet and dynamic as it gets, and favors pre-flop callers' ranges more than the PFR's. I'd be careful not to start shoveling money into the pot with over-pairs on the flop.

I honestly don't see the point of betting small on the flop here. I would be inclined to check it back on the flop.

I can certainly get behind a flop check, although a small bet could get hands with some equity to fold. I think betting is only a problem if you think either opponent would try to c/r without a hand that's already ahead of KK.

I don't expect that out of my player pool. I do expect them to call too wide.

Most players in most pools call too wide.

To go back to this question: "If you have me beat, why didn't you check/raise me?" - were you thinking he'd have check-raised flop, or check-raised turn? It's kind of an important distinction.

Check-raises are going to generate more fold equity than donk bets, especially on the turn. If V is studied, and made his hand on the turn, donking out is better than going for a check-raise.

Either?

That flop is every bit as wet and dynamic for him as it is for me, so even if he has a set, check/calling is dangerous.

How much fold equity can there be when the SPR is now 2ish? I think that's why I smelled a rat here; if he had me drawing thinly he'd want me to bet and commit myself, as I've basically shouted I have an overpair. This donk seemed to want me to fold now rather than play for stacks, so I chose to play for stacks.

The question is, am I smart enough to check back here those times when a Villain does have two pair/a set and is trying to trap me? Pumping the brakes is something I should probably be doing more often, as evidenced by the flop.

Some studied opponents will delay a check-raise until the turn, even on a wet and dynamic board, because a flop check-raise somewhat screams 2P/set, whereas check-raising on a turn brick is more likely to confuse an opponent, with the added bonus of likely getting an additional street of value and / or more money into the pot on the turn.

My point was that if he decided not to check-raise the flop, the 8d on the turn is a card you might be more likely to check back, as it completes some draws, and adds a BDFD. So if his plan was to check-raise the turn, rather than the flop, the plan might change when he sees that card, and instead decides to donk out.

I think the value in checking back the flop is that it keeps us from getting check-raised off our equity, and puts the pressure on V to decide if he wants to take the betting lead on the turn.

This line makes sense if he flopped a big hand, or turned a big hand. It makes less if he was bluffing, and was hoping you'd fold, unless he had some sort of monster combo-draw which made him indifferent, and he thought you might not bet turn and / or might not call a river bet if he made his hand, given how connected the board already is.