2/5 turn oop vs a huge fish
2/5 with occasional rock straddle that is played only on the button or utg.
Villain is a massive fish with aggro tendencies. He x/c big river bets on board changing river/turn(flushes) with only tpnk or middle pair but he turned out to be correct in both situation(made him look like a genius). He would bluff in random spots. Float flop/turn with random in a limp multiway pot then bluff raise shove river vs a spewy lag on a blank. Lag said she folded top2, he shows random air that makes no sense(no pair no draw nothing Q high).
Hero is nitty/tagish not sure it matters to him. Hero also stacked a shortie with AA earlier on the night before stacking villain. Stacks around 1.9k
Hero stacked him once tonight for 1k
HH
V rock straddles on btn for 10, 1 limper in mp, Hero opens to 45 w/AJ on HJ, V flats with 105dd in position.
Flop J23dd Hero checks, he bets 50, Hero x/r to 200, He's like wtf, and called. And said "Good Luck".
Turn 2 Hero bets 400, V ships for 750ish, Hero snap calls.
Effective stacks 800ish.
Actual Hand
V rock straddles in UTG for 15(he added 5 on top), 3 limpers, Hero in SB with 69ss completes, BB calls, Villain raises to 40???(it's his standard raise size on a 15 straddle), all calls, Hero calls, bb calls.
Not sure if yall limp with 69ss in SB, but it felt ok with so many fishes(4-5) at the tables. Then calling the small raise was standard right? Massive pot odds. 2-3 deep stacks
Pot 240(6 way pot)
Flop K64r(1 spade) checks to V who bets 40 all folds to hero, Hero calls.
Pot 320
Turn 3s, H checks, V bets 75, Hero??? call??? raise??? No we never ever folding with the backdoor flush draw for this small.
Villain has about 650ish behind.
What's your play?
I have no clue what these small bets mean.
If we call, do we donk big on river when we hit? or do we pray for a bet then go for the check/raise?
If we raise, what sizes we use? Ship? 300? 400? doesn't matter?
6 Replies
Not sure if yall limp with 69ss in SB, but it felt ok with so many fishes(4-5) at the tables. Then calling the small raise was standard right? Massive pot odds. 2-3 deep stacks
Absolutely not. We are in crap position with a crap hand. Nothing about this says nitty/tagish. Frankly, it sounds more like entitlement tilt.
AP, I don't mind the flop call on such a tiny bet with second pair.
Turn is just a call. We've seen that this guy has no fold button, so semi-bluffing is bad. River is a chunky v-bet if we hit the flush and a check/eval on anything else. 2p or trips I'd likely call a big bet, and likely fold to all but the tiniest bets unimproved.
Grunch:
PRE - seriously, just fold 96 the first time. Definitely fold it when action gets back to us.
FLOP - not folding when he bets 40 into 240 and all others fold. Just calling.
TURN - not folding when he bets 75 into 320. I might raise, with plans to barrel all rivers, if only because his bet sizing looks weak, and our hand isn't overly likely to win at showdown if our draw bricks and the river checks through. But I don't mind flatting, to keep the pot small. It's possible V has a better flush draw and our pair is actually good.
You really need to stop focusing exclusively on your own hand, and start focusing on your opponents' ranges. What range are you giving V here?
I'd be giving him a range of weak Kx, PP's below the K, like 77-QQ, some Ax combos, including some better flush draws, and because you say he's fishy, some BS like 75/53 for an OESD, and some random air. Occasionally he's milking us while holding KK or AA.
He's probably not folding much of that range if we raise turn, but we might be able to make him fold some of that range if we raise turn and barrel river. On the other hand, we beat some of that range, which he might continue to bet on brick rivers, and some of that range may just check back.
The problem with raising turn and barreling river is it seems like this V doesn't have much of a fold button. It seems like he likes to bet with value and bluffs, so I'd just call turn. If we make our hand on the river, I'd donk out. If we brick, I'd check again, and evaluate.
Yeh I don't like the call pre - I'd probably prefer to raise given he straddled to 15 as I think this hand plays well HU given our board coverage. Calling is the worst play - folding/raising are better depending on how people react. As played on the flop I think I would raise - doesn't seem like he bets 40 with Kx+ and you can rep a set. If he truly is a massive station that won't fold a pair here then yeh x/r is not good, but I think this guy sounds much better than you're giving him credit for.
Spoiler
Hero x/r to 500
Villain is like wtf you have, k3???, and ships w/KQo, H calls, binked a 6 on river and won.
In retrospect, we probably should never bluff/semibluff big this type of villain, who has very very little fold equity.
Just play value hands vs villain only is very profitable itself.
Forgot that villain doesn't fold in game.
In retrospect filling up is ok but we never invest more money pre,
In fact limping / limp calling / limp whatever is always bad.
Never (semi-) bluff against aggro LAG /maniac Players will co$t you as well
The opposite is true: you should raise more often with good draws
(Its counterintuitive see: Concept of VALUE TO BLUFF RATIO)
I would fold preflop both time and fold 2nd pair no kicker to flop bet. However, I wouldn't get allin with 18% equity and hit. You can just play solid at 2/5. If you are going to play lose, play lose/aggressive. There are sometimes you can limp/call, like with a small pp or a decent hand if you are worried about a 3!. I totally disagree that limping behind is always bad. However, limp/calling with junk like this is really bad donk play. You are paying 13 instead of 15 in the SB, which doesn't at all justify calling with a low suited gapper OOP. This whole hand is just horrible. Who is the huge fish?
