KJo Multi-way

Seems like bet turn for value like 1/3 pot or so. Are we concerned about a c/r?

A little yes. And I forgot to mention hero has 500 to start.

Its a little confusing, V is UTG and straddles UTG1 limps.. hand is fine, flop bet is a little thin, check back AP. Why bet?

I think I would check flop this multiway, still out-of-position versus two opponents. If flop checked through I would put out a chunky bet on the turn.

As played, I think I would continue betting turn. It's kind of a disaster when this river comes, because you basically have to check and end up getting minimum value from the loose, call-happy villain.

I think betting is too thin and I avoid betting "block" sizes IP in general, especially against a player that is capable of putting pressure on.

I'm not thrilled with the flop bet. I check or go bigger -- probably go bigger. As played, I bet the turn $100. As played, check back the river. He's rarely calling w/ worse.

So this is a 1/3 NL game and Button has straddled 6?

FWIW, one of my forum pet peeves is when someone uses the term "I isolate preflop"... and then proceeds to tell us they went 5 ways to the flop. That word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Anyhoo.

Trivial preflop fold for me. We're in far too early a position with a very meh hand and a table where an isolation attempt will likely fail, plus we have a difficult player on the Button who isn't likely to fold preflop.

I'm cool with a small bet or a check on the flop. With still 2 players behind me and a pretty drawless board I might opt for the check/evaluate.

I'm cool with a check on the turn. We're fine underrepping / not building an even bigger pot.

Aren't we OOP and thus act first on the river? Against most I'd lean to a small blocking value bet, although against this guy getting to showdown might be better.

ETA: Ah, Villain is UTG straddle? Think I'm ok with the turn check back against a lag who could put us in a stoopid spot. The more chance this guy can put us in a stoopid spot on the river, and the less chance he pays off with worse (a real concern with my image, I'm not sure about yours?), the more I might just check back this river.

GcluelessNLnoobG

KJo is the absolute bottom of my iso range here and it wouldn't be every time.

5 ways with a weak top pair on a dry board? I'd probably check mostly - hand doesn't need a huge amount of protection even 5 ways - or bet smaller.

As played I'm happy checking back both turn and river. Turn you are targeting KT and that's about it, unless you think you can get some sort of 88 type hand to call. River your opponent was probably looking for a blank to bluff and didn't get it. Now you're not going to get bluffcaught and your opponent could have an Ace himself once in a while. Keeping the pot small here, expecting to win most times, seems fine

Sorry for the confusion. It’s 2-3 and V straddled utg. I’ll make a better hand history next time I promise.

I believe iso means an isolation attempt but I see why you disagree GG.

Grunch:

PRE - my first thought is the $25 raise seems like an OK size, but with this many callers, I wonder if we can go bigger.

FLOP - With two opponents in front and two behind, I could go either way between checking or c-betting this hand on this board. Probably a slight preference for the c-bet, and the 1/3 pot size seems fine.

TURN - Checking back to bluff-catch river seems okay. But also wouldn't mind a barrel for 1/2 pot, just to re-cap V. Thinking he could show up with KQ or K9 often enough that we'd like him to raise those hands now, and we kinda hate a lot of straight-completing river cards.

RIVER - Hmmmm...I don't hate checking back, but if V is a decent LAG, I wonder if we can bet for thin value here, to get called by worse KX, or occasionally push V off a chop.

It's kind of mergey, because sometimes he'll get here with KQ and make a hero fold. It's hard to imagine what AX combos he has that get here this way, but maybe some weak AX also finds a hero fold.

I don't think it's a huge mistake to check back or go for thin value with a 2/3 pot bet. I think it's only a mistake to bet if your plan is to bet small and fold to a raise. A decent LAG may be capable of pouncing on a small bet and check-raising as a bluff with a hand that has some showdown value.

If you don't think you can bet-fold for value, just check back.

Thought about this a little more after I posted above. My suggestions are based on the read that V is a decent LAG straddling UTG, with multiple opponents showing interest in the hand, and thinking about what my range would look like on the river, since I'm a decent LAG (I mean...I think I'm decent).

AA/KK - Never. Those are auto-3B's pre in the straddle.

AK - sometimes flatted pre rather than raising and having to play the rest of the hand OOP with ace-high. But in those instances I may donk or check-raise the K-high flop. When I don't 3B pre, and don't donk or raise flop, and the turn goes check-check, I'm bombing the river with top 2P, knowing I'll never get credit, and opponents won't be able to fold any decent AX after running into top pair on the river.

A7s / A4s - if I flopped a pair with top kicker and had a BDFD to go with it, I might float the flop, but if I did, I'm bombing the river when the turn goes check-check. If I run into A9, so be it.

Random AX - mostly getting 3B pre or folded on the flop. I'm not getting here this way with A9, ever.

K9 - probably the best hand I'll ever have here. I was going for a x/r on the turn, but now I'm probably leading river to get called by AX. The only time I'd check K9 on the river is if I think hero is going to bet all his AX for a big size. But I think most opponents are just going to bet small, hoping to get value from Kx and worse Ax, which is why I'd usually just come out and bet.

KQ / KJ / KT - this is going to be the bulk of my range, and I'm checking river to evaluate whether to call or fold based on hero's bet size. I might make a crying call if the bet is small enough, but otherwise just folding without thinking about it too hard if hero bets 2/3 pot or more, because I'm going to be giving hero a ton of AX that was just monkey c-betting the flop, gave up on the turn, but then ran into top pair on the river.

88 and TT - I could see flatting pre with these hands in the straddle, check-calling flop, and now checking river, hoping hero checks back, but planning to fold if hero bets 1/2 pot or more.

99 - I'd play 99 pre the same way as 88 and TT (and K9), go for a check-raise on the turn, but definitely lead the river.

If hero bets small here, it may make me think he has weak AX, or just has a PP between 88 and QQ that he's betting thin or turning into a bluff, and it may induce me to x/r with some of those Kx hands that I think can't win at showdown vs AX, but block AK, AQ, and AJ, and might occasionally get hero-called by 88-QQ that doesn't believe we'd check an ace on the river.

I think KJ can be bet here, to fold out KQ and KJ. But the bet has to be large enough to not induce a check-raise. It's kind of a disaster if V x/r's with KQ and we hero-call because he's a LAG and we think he's just doing LAG $hlt.

Fold pre. Too likely you’ll be taking KJo 3+ ways OOP. AP I would check flop.
AP I would bet turn roughly half pot.
AP I’d bet river and probably call raises.

Edit: Didn't realize we were 5-way .... oops. Checking most of time, otherwise see below ...

Since hand is multi-way I'd go $80 on a flop texture that we should continue with the majority of our PFR range. If HU, I'd go $45 to keep all of his mid-pairs in the fray.

Given flop action, I'd bet/fold $120 on turn, and X back river if called.

I'm folding preflop here with KJo. I have no interest in trying to iso a good lag with the bottom of my range.

Prefer to x flop with 2 players behind if we're readless. Don't hate the c-bet against a more passive lineup.

Turn: I think this is the decision point in this hand. I strongly prefer a reasonable bet here (1/2 psb), especially if there's a bdfd. Even without it, we have range and nut advantage now. We should bet because there are many nut-changing rivers (non-A broadways, 8, 3).

AP river: I don't see any thin value available here because we are targeting a very narrow range that we can beat. I think we take x/take SDV or make a polar bet. We have more AK/KK/AA. V cannot comfortably raise without a hand that crushes us. And we need some FE here often.

So I prefer polar bet to blow him off chops, some KQ and fold his weak Ax. If he has 99/77, I think he might have led turn.

Results? This is quite a good one

River check check and V shows K8hh

Well played. You called it with your read, that he's defending his straddle too wide. I read that, and still didn't think he'd show up with a hand as bad as K8. Guess it shows we can't give opponents too much credit.