Top 2p vs raise turn
£1/3 NL (8-handed), loose table with mostly regtards.
V is a middle-aged man who seems to be having fun and bluffing small pots.
Hero has been sitting for 3 hours, but in the 30 minutes since V joined the table, Hero hasn’t been giving much action.
Stacks:
EP (Hero) – £750
CO (V) – £750
BTN (V2) – £550
Hero is dealt A♦ 6♣
All fold to Hero, who raises to £12. V and V2 call, the rest fold.
Note: Hero has not opened a single hand from EP in the last 30 minutes, hence the decision to open.
Flop (£40): A♥ 6♠ 5♥
Hero checks, V bets £18, V2 calls, Hero raises to £65. V calls, V2 folds.
Note: V thinks a bit and then calls with a slightly disgusted face.
Turn (£188): 4♣
Hero bets £90, V raises to £240. Hero?
6 Replies
This is where body language can be key. You mentioned that he had bluffed some previous pots. How much time did he take before he raised you? Was it similar to the time he took when bluffed those other pots? Normally I would NOT make this call (ironically I recently put up a post about what triggers an auto-fold in this spot and this situation qualifies), BUT...based on other factors you've described, if I felt his body language was similar to when he previously bluffed, then it would probably push me just enough into the other direction.
Obviously he's selling that he has 78, but he could also have A4 and been unhappy about calling with a weak ace until he hit two pair.
A6o is unplayable garbage and I would even probably let it go if folded to me on the Button, but anywhere else it is a trivial fold preflop, imo. Also, a typical LLSNL table full of regtards facing a $12 open means we will go multiway ~100% of the time (our image has zero affect on this at this sizing), often simply have to make the best hand to win the pot (which we very rarely will with this hand), plus thanks to being OOP it will be more difficult to win the pot without the best hand. Let the game come to us, imo.
SPR is quite large. Are we going to be super pumped getting in stacks postflop with just top two? I would probably just go bet/bet/bet targeting worse Ax and then evaluate if raised. I think check/raising is overplaying at this stack depth on this fairly non-drawy board.
One of the worst turn cards as now the most obvious draw (87) got there. I think I would actually check this card so I can get to the river for a reasonable price. As played, most players don't overvalue worse two pear here given our very strong flop line, so prolly a sigh fold at this point.
Goverplayedateverypoint,imoG
A6o is unplayable garbage and I would even probably let it go if folded to me on the Button, but anywhere else it is a trivial fold preflop, imo. Also, a typical LLSNL table full of regtards facing a $12 open means we will go multiway ~100% of the time (our image has zero affect on this at this sizing), often simply have to make the best hand to win the pot (which we very rare
Hi, thanks for your comments.
I agree preflop, the starting hand is just weak and maybe the open raise just came out of frustration, rather than flow.
As played, aren't we happy to get it in on the flop? The standard regtard does it also with AQ+ (which he might have slow played preflop) and combodraws, doesn't he?
And the board is not dry, being two-tone with connectors (I hope the post is clear, as there are two hearts on the flop).
I realise the SPR concerns, are they still valid against non skilled villains?
Turn: if villain has the tendencies above he'll also overplay worse 2p, won't he?
I'm really trying to adapt to the main characters you meet at a low stakes live table, so any insights about their most common tendencies are highly appreciated.
Thanks.
@ OP, regarding typical LLSNL opponent tendencies
If you're playing with people who intentionally attempt to get in huge $750 stacks into a $40 pot on the flop with AQ, you're playing in the best game in the world. No one does that. Yeah, they might grit their teeth and start calling down and lose some money over multiple streets (whether or not they can manage a fold on the river, or even the turn, is debatable plus depends somewhat on our image and their skill level), but no one is putting in that money on the flop with AQ. And for the most part, this also goes for A5/65 too once they face a big check/raise and then they begin to wonder if they've been coolered once again (because they are all losers and they are losers cuz of all the goddamn coolers that they'll bend your ear about if you give them half the chance and goddammit have they walked into another one).
SPR more concerns how we should be looking at things, imo. Whether our opponents are thinking about that is sorta irrelevant. But a lotta opponents, whether they realize it or not, sorta sometimes do think in terms of SPR (i.e. when their stack gets big they become much more protective of how it goes in). I mean, it somewhat depends on how big a stack $750 is in your game. If everyone in your game bought into it for $2000, then it probably isn't a big stack. But I'm going to make the assumption that everyone bought in for far less (may $200 - $500?) and thus $750 is a big stack. Big stacks don't go in easy in most LLSNL games (other than the most wildest of games). And even though most of your opponents are losers, this also ain't anyone's first rodeo.
Ggoodluck!G
What do you think V thinks of you? I seriously doubt V believes you're x-r with A6/A5, on A65(two-tone. Not rb. Black hearts...really?), because you should almost never have it here, opening from EP. You also rarely have 66/55/65s, same reason. So a 3.5x raise over a 50% cbet and call is repping AA, and some AK/AQ/65s? I also agree with GG about Vs not stacking off on flop with TPTK for 250 bigs anymore.
The disgusted face can be for lots of reasons, at their play or yours. Hard to tell. "Why am I calling against his obvious AA here? Stupid! Stupid!"
Anyway bluffing small pots is different than sticking 80 bigs into a pot of 90 bigs on a bluff. I'm folding unless I know this V is capable of that. And since I know I'd fold vs that V on a nut-changing turn card like that, I'm either betting small or check-calling something reasonable. Betting near half pot is too big, IMHO.
Finally, if V thinks you've AA, and also thinks you've the typical LLS entitlement attachment to getting that OP you've waited for so long to catch---and a set on top of that!---then bluffing here is damn near suicidal. They need to raise here, to get stacks in reliably on river.
If V is bluffing, it's a really good bluff. FWIW, I go bigger on the flop -- at least $75, if not $90.