nfd vs tilted fish

V2 is "lag" but is 3rd man calling from the SB.

Competent, but bets pot with KJ on T92 and is pot committed so "has" to call off another 250.

Competent, but opening 5 high from EP.

As to the hand, seems like a super obvious call to keep V2 in with our nut draw. Also V1 just bet big into 3 other people.

Before that, if you can't 3bet then likely fold is better.

Ok we call
then V2 all of sudden raises to 140 now after seeing I called??? Dealer allowed it. I didn't bother saying anything during the hand to give off tells of my hand.
V1 tank folds???
Back to hero???

Well at least he's more competent than me postflop especially in multiway pots, he could always squeeze the max value from his uber thin ranges.

I'm tempted to jam here especially if you have a tight image. Feels like he's probably making a play at the pot with a very wide range given his play style and the situation at hand (tilted guy should be wide, and figures your range is semi capped)

You could call and go for the shove on blank turns, problem is if he bets big enough he might end up feeling like he's pot committed. And just call off with AJ or something that he might fold on the flop.

Interesting hand looking forward to seeing how it played out

Interesting spot. I could see an argument for raising, but I probably just call. We'd hate to raise and get 3B off our equity here.

I think we can ask for the floor to make a ruling, without necessarily worrying about giving away our hand strength. Like, we're not going to have 2P+ here. And neither is V when he flat calls out of turn. It looks like we just have Ax or a draw.

My read on the situation would be that if the floor allows the raise, then a jam here gets through a lot, because he's not very likely to be all that strong. We have a ton of equity to improve if we're behind and get called, and it seems likely that he may have a worse draw.

I might fake tank a little, fake check my cards, then shrug and jam, to rep AX.

The only caveat here is that this could potentially be an angle from V2, holding a strong hand. The challenge is finding strong hands in his range when he flats from the SB as a supposedly competent LAG, and then flat calls flop out of turn. I'd think AT, TT, and A5 are all 3B pre or raised on the flop, and would wait for you to call, and he should mostly be folding T5. If he sees you tanking, you could be contemplating a raise. This angle could backfire on him if you decide to fold once he calls.

It sort of looks like a reverse angle. He wants to look strong so we fold, but I'm not buying it. My gut feeling would be that V2 is FOS and pushing a worse draw.

We're almost free-rolling here, if the possible outcomes are he calls a jam with a worse draw, folds a better hand, or calls and we make our hand to double up.

Angle-shooting (expletive deleted)... Def call the floor over.

This might be 55. We still have 25% though. Don't mind jamming now vs calling and probably facing a jam from V on turn with only 1 card to go.

Seems a little loose to me preflop but I'm a nit. But Button and reasonable price against tilting player, although I despise 3-gappers.

Seems we have 0 FE against tilty and are getting a decent price to draw to the nuts in a multiway pot in position, so that's what I do.

ETA:WTF at action, pretty sure he can't raise after calling out-of-turn, no? I'd definitely clarify with dealer and otherwise floor. If we're somehow allowing this, it's a meh spot as the last time he put big money in trickily he had a nuttish hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG

At most rooms he can’t raise. With a nut draw and position I definitely don’t want to face a raise.

I would smash it in his face so we can see 2 cards and maybe get some folds.

I would 3bet or fold this hand pre.

When someone acts out of turn, I always confirm the action with the dealer before I act myself. In this instance, I would say, "If I call, does his call stand?" or something to that effect.

As played, I would jam and pray to get a fold or make a flush.

Thinking about this more...

I know this hand already took place, so it's too late to go back and re-do anything, and it's unlikely a situation exactly like this will come up again, but there are some interesting implications here.

Like, first, there's no way V2 should be allowed to raise after flat calling out of turn. Our flat call doesn't change the action. If the floor was called over to clarify before we put in the call and he tried to raise, the decision should be V2 can only call if we flat call, and in that scenario, V1 would still be in the hand.

The point is that, once V2 raises, the dealer allows it, and V1 mucks - where are V1's cards now? Did the dealer scoop them into the muck, or is his hand still retrievable? If his hand is still retrievable, and we're thinking about jamming, I wouldn't call the floor over, because the floor may rule V2 can only call, and V1 gets his hand back.

If the dealer already scooped V1's hand into the muck, his hand is dead, and now we can either call the floor to make a ruling, which may be V2 can only call, and we're going to the turn heads up, or we don't call the floor, and V2's raise becomes "accepted action". Now we can either call the raise, or come over the top.

If we jam, it's not like V2 could then call the floor over and ask the floor to rule that he couldn't raise, only call, and therefore we can't jam. Like, the floor is never going to say that, once V1 folds to V2's raise and we jam. There's too much action to roll back.

Since we were tanking when V2 called out of turn, we could have been considering a raise with a strong hand, but opted to flat call because we saw V2 call behind. Now that V2 has raised and V1 folds, our jam looks stronger if we DON'T call the floor.

If we call the floor to make a ruling, we might be letting V1 back into the hand, and now we look like we don't want to face a raise, and we end up folding turn when V1 jams on a brick, or if V1 checks, we look FOS if we jam, and V2 snaps us off with any pair or better.

We could conceivably have 2P+ when we jam. We could have been sitting there wondering what we want to do with TT, 55, AT, or A5, and we're licking our chops when V2 raises.

If we're not going to call the floor over to make a ruling before V1 mucks, a jam becomes a really sexy play here, when V2 doesn't look all that strong, but may still make a light call if he thinks we're FOS.

All that said, I could see this happening if V2 had 2P+, and truly didn't realize he was calling out of turn. He could be flatting the flop thinking he's heads up, but once we call, now he wants to raise to charge our draws to continue, and he'd be ecstatic to call our jam.

Still though - his $100 raise over the $40 doesn't look all that strong. I'd think his 2P+ would want to make it $200 to go. We could also just flat call, and rep a straight if the turn is any K, Q or J.

Don't know if he's folding 2P+ if we donk turn to rep Broadway. Maybe not. And we might end up trying to rep the hand he actually has, if he's doing this with QJss and the turn is a K.

I dunno. This is such a weird spot. I don't think we're making a huge mistake by flatting and evaluating the turn. Calling flop and betting turn might actually look scarier to V2 than if we jam flop.

Vs. tilted V1, I don't mind a 3bet pre. The call is OK from BTN, but not ideal.

Action is not OK, but here we are. Just shove. Seriously -- make him pay for it.

Wow so many say back shove. Yea I probably should've called floor.

I actually thought about shoving during hand but then I thought it might look too FOS and get snapped.

Also, I was thinking villain ranges does have some draws, some 55. Then again tilted fish was in hand, so I find it hard for him to bluff/semi bluff????
His value was only 55??? or something super thin like Ax???
I've seen him slowplay sets on A65r 8 flop+turn but it was dry board, but here it's a wet board vs a tilted fish, they were deepstacks like 1200+.
If I had to guess it was super thin value range, not nutted.

Now, come to think of it, shoving is probably best after he raised to 140. He literally folds everything besides 55 and combodraws which he shouldn't have and he's flatting oop vs a fish.