Bottom 2 pair 3bet pot

First - this would be easier if we knew the actual positions for you and the other two. MP-MP+2 doesn't really tell us much. Is this game 9 handed? Are you in HJ?

If you're in the HJ in a 9-handed game, I'd say the open is more EP than MP. It's an important distinction, because it gives us some indication of his range, and we know how many opponents our 3B needs to get through.

Generally I'm not a fan of 3B'ing hands like T9s over an EP raise and an EP call. It's somewhat situation dependent, though.

Also, how are the players left to act? If the players in the blinds are terrible, I think we might be better off just flatting here, to invite them in. Yeah, we'll be playing multi-way, but we'll have good position, and the initial raiser will be forced to play his hand pretty face-up.

As played, our pre-flop sizing to $60 is okay, though I could see going a tad bigger when we don't really know if we want action. Flopping bottom 2P on QT9rb sort of helps illustrate why I don't love 3B'ing T9s pre. We're losing to QQ, TT, 99, QT, Q9, KJ, and J8. Even if our read is that V is TAG, the only part of that range we might rule out is J8, and maybe QT/Q9.

But he still has enough QQ, TT, 99 and KJs here to make this a spot where we're probably losing if all the money goes in.

Since we have the betting lead pre, and we're IP, and we have a hand that benefits from some equity denial, we might make a standard 1/3 pot c-bet of around $45 or $50, and see what happens.

It's kind of a $hltty spot if we get x/r'd, because we'll be in no-man's land, not really sure what we're hoping for. I might actually go bigger with the bet size, like half pot, say, $75, so we don't induce an x/r.

If it goes check-call, I think we should probably slow down and check back turn if it's any card 6 or higher. We're pretty much looking for another 9 or a wheel card.

Preflop: We're pretty deep, so just calling is okay too as Docvail suggests. Squeezing is just too ambitious as we're just going to isolate ourselves against better hands. V's flat with A7s in HH1 doesn't suggest our 3b! is going to fold him often enough. Getting 4B by TAG opener would not be great either.

AP flop: Docvail covered this well, but I would just add that V flat called the TAG 15 open. So he has no QQ here and probably no AQ, AK, AJs, nor JJ either. We block TT/99.

V is weighted toward combo gutshot broadway draws like KTs or KQo.

Therefore I like Doc's idea of a larger flop bet. If we bet 75-80 he is only continuing with stuff like QJ and KQo. I don't like a small bet because it doesn't deny enough equity nor does it compress his range, so it's a waste of effort.

I'm not worried about xr because the nuts doesn't need to xr. I think J8 should donk here.

Sorry, after reading Spanishmoon's post, I feel I need to clarify mine.

I realize that V is the MP caller, but he double-flatted - he flat called the initial raise, then flat-called our 3B. That's a fishy play, but usually points to a range that's going to have a lot of Broadway combos, low-middling pairs, and some middling SC's.

I wouldn't typically include JJ, QQ or AK in that range, but there are three conditions here which make me think he could have a stronger hand - he's a TAG, he flat called the initial raise from a player who is also TAG, and who is raising from EP, and V is up over 500BB's on the session.

When a TAG is up 500BB's, he's less likely to get OOL, and may significantly tighten up on his 3B'ing range, as well as his 3B-calling range. When he flat calls the initial raise from the TAG in EP, that by itself doesn't tell us much, but then he flat calls OP's 3B, when he'll be OOP post-flop. He should have a real hand here.

I wouldn't expect JJ, QQ, or AK very often, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. We can certainly discount TT and 99 somewhat, because we block those hands. I might be more likely to discount KJ, J9, and QT, just based on the read that V is TAG and up on the session.

I think we could give him some AKo and AQ. Definitely include KQ and QJs.

What makes this spot dicey is that there's a portion of V's range which we beat, but yet he may think is strong enough to continue (AQ, KQ and JJ), and a portion that has us absolutely crushed (KJ, J9, QQ, TT, 99). The rest of his range would seem to be whiffs that are just going to check-fold.

Even though he may only have slivers of those combos that beat us, it's hard to find enough bluffs and worse value hands in his range to feel great about our hand if a lot of money goes in.

Like, let's give him 1 combo of QQ, 1 of TT, 1 of 99, 1 of J9s, and 2 of KJs. That's only 6 combos. But how many AQ/KQ and JJ combos does he have that aren't 3B pre, and want to continue on the flop, as either a check-raise over a small c-bet, or a check-call of a large c-bet?

Maybe we give him half the combos of AQ and KQ, and 1 of JJ. That's 25 combos, I think. On paper, we should be good here 70% of the time, right?

But...he's TAG. He flat called a raise from another TAG in EP, and then called our 3B from OOP. And he's up over 500BB's on the session. If we go bet-bet-bet and he goes call-call-call, how often are we good? It can't be anywhere near 70% of the time.

The more money he wants to put in, the more I'd be weighting his range towards hands that beat ours, and away from hands that we beat.

Yes we are in the HJ.
As for flatting, we have an aggro spewfish behind us in btn who might squeeze.

As played
Hero cbets 80, V x/c

Pot 299
Turn 6♠
V checks, Hero??? we have like 500ish left

Well, you screwed up and followed our advice. Now here we are haha....

AP Turn: simplistically, H turns more equity and should bet. The sizing is complicated because we could end up with no FE on river. Jamming allows V to fold everything we beat.

With the Qs on board and the Ts in our hand. it reduces V's logical FDs that are better than ours. We probably don't have to fear a spade river. So V has dirty combo draw outs and x behind may not be terrible.

I guess we can bet 100 and get V to make a mistake by calling his combo draws with dirty outs. X is okay. Jam allows V to play perfectly.

I'm fine w/ pre-flop. On flop, I like a bet. On turn, bet again -- we have more outs now. Go big, like $175 or even $200. Let him know we are committed. He should not be too strong considering the check/call check line.

I think betting $100 lets V play perfectly, too. Such an easy call w/ any draw for a decent price.

This is a very tough, interesting spot. I'm not sure there's an obvious right answer here.

Pros of 100: allows V to make the mistake of calling his combo draws and JJ with dirty spade outs. H offers 4-1 direct but V is a much bigger underdog with 8/46 live outs. H keeps some river FE with pot of 500 and 400 behind. We keep him in drawing very thin with 88.

Cons of 100: if V now just has a better FD, we are owning ourselves. No FE against marginal better hands like QTs or Q9s. V can also xrai and put us in the blender, as we get only 2-1 and are perhaps too far down in our range to call comfortably.

Pro of 200: more immediate FE of V's better FDs and some two-pairs. V seems sticky and may call too often at a bad price.
Con of 200: We lose more when we're behind. We have way less FE on river when we need it - pot of 700 and 300 behind. And we will call too often when we get beat on the river getting over 3-1 on our call if he jams. We fold out stuff drawing very thin like JJ or 88.

Pro jam: can fold his 1 99 and probably weird stuff that beats us like QTs or 87s.
Con jam: folds all his air and thin draws; disaster when he has us beaten

Pro X: maximizes river FE when we're behind. Minimizes losses when we're behind. Opportunity to win big pot on river when V spikes a dirty spade out for a straight.
Con X: Let V draw for free when he's behind. Passivity will induce aggression from V on many scary rivers.

What do you think? I still lean toward a small bet, but I see your point.

I see your point, too, but we could also lose to better two pair on river, so I don't want to give such good odds.

So let the aggro fish squeeze. This hand is so cuspy at best. We don't need to bloat the pot pre.

As played, I would check back turn. We're not always ahead, and our hand doesn't really want to play a huge pot.

If we're ahead, we'll more than likely still be ahead on the river. If we're behind, we have outs to improve. It would suck to bet and get raised off our equity, or be pot committed to calling off.

Hopefully you understand the point I was making above. Before we bet, our hand is going to be best here most of the time. If we bet and get called, the percentage of his continue range that we beat drops off a lot, and we'll be lost on a lot of rivers.

V just isn't going to have very many hands in his range that are worse than ours and can continue to a bet. That's why I was recommending a check back on the turn. If we check back the turn, V will often let us know what he has with his river action.