Standard call down w/ T’s?
$1/2. Fairly spazzing aggro table. Really a gold mine.
V1 EP $250 middle aged Mediterranean guy - maniac, sticky target. Not necessarily firing everything but has no fold button.
V2 LP $242 30βs guy. Maybe Asian. Seems aggro and a little reckless.
H BB MAWG. Sexy. Covers. V2 probably reads H as LAG with a hint of fit or fold post flop.
OTTH
V1 limps, V2 goes $10, H has black Tβs in the BB and makes it $40. V1 shocks the world with a fold and V2 calls. So playing Tβs as a 3b OOP.
Flop (~$75)
Jh5h5c
H x, V2 $50, H isnβt going away quite yet. Calls.
Turn ($175)
Jh5h5c 3d
H x, V2 $50 again. Unless V2 has 3βs nothing has changed. V2 could have any PP 2βs - Qβs. Any two broadway cards. Lots of heart draws. H calls again.
River ($275)
Jh5h5c 3d 5s
H x, V2 stuffs it for his last $102. Again nothing really changes here. H probably has to call getting these odds.
Anywhere to bail on this hand? Anywhere to increase the action?
Thoughts everywhere appreciated.
16 Replies
Could be any jack doing this, but if you think V is capable of blind aggression then you've got to call it down.
There may be some merit to x/r the flop to clean up equity vs random high cards.
I think this is a fine calldown. The river doesn't feel great but I think you could see a lower pair like 99 or maybe a random missed flush draw.
His sizing on the turn looks really weak which makes me want to discount JX, but maybe it's just a weak J like J9s. I would feel tempted to check/jam turn given there is only $100 behind. Going to be calling off on most rivers given the SPR, so might as well commit him with a flush draw or a worse pair. If he folds something like AQ that is randomly stabbing, that isn't so bad either.
I like it.
I think this is a fine calldown. The river doesn't feel great but I think you could see a lower pair like 99 or maybe a random missed flush draw. His sizing on the turn looks really weak which makes me want to discount JX, but maybe it's just a weak J like J9s. I would feel tempted to check/jam turn given there is only $100 behind. Going to be calling off on most rivers given t
I agree with this line of thought.
Personally, I like the flop check-raise here
Maybe just to a hundred - you say hero isnβt going away here, but I want to see if villain wants to go away. I like early info
Itβs not just about finding where you stand but forcing villain to make a decision. Instead, you go thru a couple of streets of nothing changes & not knowing where youβre at.
Whatever villain does against the check-raise, heβs less likely to be bluffing moving forward. Even if he calls & you check the turn, heβs aware you might raise again.
You donβt want to go thru a hand guessing all the way, you need to try to keep villain guessing instead. But more importantly, you need to make villain define his hand, so you have a better idea of how to proceed.
Every time you find yourself calling down, unless youβre trapping, I suggest you take a little time to consider all other options first.
Crai on flop might force him off better hands and get called by flush draws.
My thoughts on not raising were I can credibly rep AK here and his mid and low PP’s may try to value town me and his worse hands may try to get me to lay it down. By staying in weak/check/call mode I can get max value from hands I’m ahead of. If he has a J or 5 I’m probably just stuck at this SPR.
Not sure if that makes sense or is smart, but that was the thinking.
Would anyone just bet 25 on flop as the pfr against V whose range is capped?
Results: H calls river. V tables AQ no hearts and MHIG. Table talk suggested it was a hero call. I thought it was standard. Appreciate the feedback.
turn is a huge sizing tell that villain is weak, so wp by letting him keep bluffing.
If I'm reading this right, on the turn it's $175 and V has $152. Why doesn't he jam this turn with less than a PSB?
I'm at least calling down, maybe even putting him all-in on the turn if I smell weakness.
V play seems very weird on every street ...
Depending on reads I might sigh fold flop assuming he has AJ/KJ or something (but given your reads, I guess not).
The most confusing thing to me is he is going to do this wtf not just put more (or all) money in pre.
Maybe he somehow decided you have AK on flop and he can bluff you off now? But then keeps firing?
Turn size looks so much like "I don't want to shove, I don't want to check, and I've just realized I spaz bet huge on the flop so SPR is terrible now" it's almost a gift he didn't check or shove.
Obv. we can shrug and raise flop or turn ... but eh. IME when I have QQ here they never even think about folding KJ, and I'm not sure he'd fold his exact hand. Calling means they can continue firing with like 98 drawing almost dead, the only real problem is calling down if a heart hits.
I think this should be a range-bet here OOP after 3-betting PF, especially since a J55 flop really doesn't hit a raise-caller's hand.
Grunch:
PRE - so...in my limited observation, aggro players who play a lot of hands tend to play their best hands more aggressively, such that I don't think I'd be putting QQ into this guy's range when he flats our 3B after opening. I probably wouldn't give him much JJ, either. I'd think we almost always have the best hand when we 3B and he just flats.
At these stack depths...I dunno, but when V opens to $10, I think I might like going a little larger with the 3B. I know 4x is "standard", but it's NO limit. We can raise whatever we want. I think I might go egregiously large here, and make it $60. If we do that, it's going to put a ton of pressure on a lot of his range, and we don't mind taking this down pre.
FLOP - I think checking is fine / standard. Not sure what to make of his 2/3 bet sizing on this board. What's he repping? 5x? Jx? I'm not sure I buy it, and my instincts say we should consider raising here, to deny equity. Again, we don't really mind if he folds and we just take it down here. Our hand isn't super-strong, and is quite vulnerable on a lot of run-outs.
TURN - Okay, this is where we really need to stop and think about what we're doing. There's a FDFD on board, and V could be checking back here a lot. It doesn't make a ton of sense for us to donk out on the 3d, so I don't mind the check in flow, even knowing we'll hate seeing him check back and a third heart hit the river.
But when he bets $50 again, I think it's an almost mandatory raise now. Our hand double-blocks all his combos of JT, and it's hard for me to credit him with a really strong hand when he "same-bets" it on a turn brick. I think we can just jam it in his face here, and live with the results if he somehow has us beat.
All that said...
RIVER - okay, so he's capable of barreling off if he's bluffing. I think this has to be a call. He can have 66-99, busted heart draws, random BW combos that just whiffed, and who knows what other sort of garbage at these stakes. Again, if he has us beat, nice hand, good game. We have too much hand to fold to this guy, in this situation.
Now off to read the rest of the thread...
Results: H calls river. V tables AQ no hearts and MHIG. Table talk suggested it was a hero call. I thought it was standard. Appreciate the feedback.
Nice! Max value!
Don't sweat the table talk. Most of them probably weren't paying much attention until showdown.
Minor critique - yeah, we got max value, but I think raising turn is the better play, long-term, if we're likely to rage-fold if any over-card or heart dribbles off on the river.