Contemplate this squeeze

I don't really like it. Just take a turn IP with a call.

It depends on how often they fold a pair or better or will call w/ flush draws or straight draws, although I'm not sure I want to see those. You rep JT, 22, draws, and maybe AJ.

The main consideration for me would be how likely we are to get folds from both people if we raise. In this case, it seems not very likely because the board is so connected. Two pair isn't folding, flush draws usually aren't folding, OESD isn't folding, pair with backdoor equity might not be folding, etc. So I would just call.

You also get more information on the Turn based on bet sizing, and if people seem weak, you could make a big play there. People are also more likely to fold their draws then, and you will hear from 2 pair or sets by that point.

pretty bad nobody is folding anything

I don't get it.

If you didn't three-bet this preflop why are you suddenly raising now? Jx and overpairs are folding next to never.

(I'm not saying three-bet preflop, btdubs.)

I’m ok with 3betting or calling preflop. You might get heads up with a 3bet, but UTG limps can be big hands.

Actually, when UTG donks small here, my thought is he’s marginal, but could be trying to induce with a big hand. If he was trying to induce, he got what he wanted. I struggle with your description, because in my small sample, I have never played with an Asian nit, they always have the gamble in them.

But with your description of V1, I don’t see how you could ever raise here. You got a piece of the flop with a backdoor flush draw, call & see the turn. It would be a shame for him to bet you off this hand with the equity you have.

If there was ever a time to pot control, the turn can improve your hand in many ways. You could be seeing the turn with a hundred in the pot and lots of opportunity to improve. Instead, you bloat the pot with a hand that can’t stand pressure. A bet where no better hand folds & no worse hand calls.

Though I try to put myself in these spots, it’s hard not being there. Maybe you know something I haven’t thought of.

Just an aside, you realize coolering opportunities go both ways, right?

I mean I'm a nit and fold preflop. But this deep and on the Button and definitely not going to hate on calling.

Does anyone think we just flat JJ/TT preflop? If not, what story are we telling? We have one set. We have one two pear. Otherwise we have a crapload of draws. And they can still easily both have monsters. But, sometimes this deep our story might not have to make sense, so it might work.

Personally, I'd much rather just call here in position and evaluate, possibly repping diamonds if one comes and it is checked to me (cuz that is a story that does make sense).

GcluelesstorytellernoobG

I fold preflop and if I'm forced to play this hand, I would rather 3 bet than flat. V2's range has various hands that outkick us and I'd prefer to fold out some of those out, potentially take it down preflop or thin the herd and get HU.

AP I flat the flop for this price with 2nd pair + backdoors.

Yeah don't like raising on the flop. Our hand is better served as a bluff catcher. Overpairs are not folding, flush draws are not folding, don't think Jx would fold either

you yourself mention that Villain is a nit and does not ever put in money without big hands and this Villain decided to donk; I think I am folding here....

I'm not sure people understand, some OMC donked 1/6th pot and the PFR just called... We don't need to get a J to fold now. And lol at overpairs, does PFR even have AA here? What's a hand like AJ doing when I bomb a blank turn? I think we can apply a lot of pressure here over multiple streets. Anyhoo

Result:

i think this is well played tbh though would imagine call is preferred

Results kinda just answered your own question, didn't it? Just cuz someone bet really small and someone else called doesn't mean everything from the nuts to overpairs to monster draws ain't still in play. Sorta like how recently everyone here is surprised when AA/KK shows up due to unexpected passive preflop play. The nuts and overpairs and monster draws are *always* part of any continuing range, regardless of how they are continuing.

But, yes, you can definitely apply pressure, even to parts of that strong continuing range. Obviously it isn't going to work versus the ~nuts. But some with "just" overpairs might start feeling the heat (especially when deep), although it is also my guess that in general they didn't tarp with an overpair just to fold to aggression (unless our story makes more sense).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Preflop, it is close between 3!, call, and fold.

This is a really wet board and really bad to bluff on with a piece of it. Totally unsurprising someone had on OESD and someone else probably top set. Flop raise is burning money, against this specific later action, but generally on this flop.

Just call flop. Just go home if the 1/3 game sucks

Grunch:

Interesting spot.

Ordinarily I'd say when someone donks in a multi-way pot, it's usually going to indicate a strong hand, but here, it's hard to believe that when he limps pre from UTG and only bets 1/6 pot. I'd guess this is weak value or a draw looking to name his own price.

When V2 flats, that's sort of weird. If he's any kind of player, I'd think he'd be able to sniff out that V1's donk is FOS, and he'd want to raise to ISO V1 and shut us and V3 out, especially when the board is so wet and connected.

I think the flat either indicates a drawing hand or maybe something he's slow-playing, like a set. We block TT, so I'd be wondering if he has JJ, assuming he just over-limps pre with JTs and 22.

I dunno man. I like the thinking behind the raise, but I'm not sure how much fold equity we have here. If V1 has a draw, it's probably a good one if he likes it enough to donk multi-way, and he may not be ready to fold when he'll be getting over 2:1. And V2 probably isn't likely to fold once V1 calls, and maybe not even if V1 folds.

We have 2P2K and a couple of decent BD draws working for us, and this donk bet is so small that we're practically seeing a free turn card. I don't hate the raise, but I think a flat call with a plan to evaluate on the turn is probably slightly better.

Can't speak for anyone else. I understand a rock donked for an absurdly small amount and the PFR just flat called.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out over-pairs to the board, because those might be cautious that someone shows up with JT or 22 that didn't raise pre. But it's not that surprising he would show up with a set that didn't want to tip his hand by raising huge over the small donk.

This player type doesn't like to gamble without getting very favorable odds. Expecting opponents to call a flop raise with their best draws, he's likely to prefer waiting for a safe turn brick before shoveling money into the pot with his nutted hands.

Like, when V1 donks for $10 into $60, V2 won't want to make it $60 or more, because he expects everyone to fold all their 1P hands and bad draws, and only continue with worse sets or draws to the nuts. So he flats to trap, hoping someone else will raise, but if not, planning to bomb brick turns.

As for what AJ does when we bomb turn - assuming this type of V even sees the turn with AJ, I wouldn't bet my life he folds once he calls our flop raise on such a wet board. He didn't drive all the way to the casino to fold TPTK when he calls a turn raise and there are a bazillion draws available for bluffs.